Saving the Salt

[Elmo Rodge]

I'll be on my way to Mojave (to spectate) so I'll miss it but it says it can be downloaded later, right?    Wayno

[DND]

Wayno i'am not much of a pc guy does that mean it will be in print for reading on the pc or printing it out too

Thanks Don

[kiwi belly tank]

Tonight I gave all my pic's & vid's to a friend tonight who will organize the stuff & get it posted so everybody can see it. I'll come in later & clarify anything that might have been missed & answer any questions. The GoPro shots from the top of the mountain I wasn't on don't pull in the details in very close but there's still pic's & windy video that covers it better.   

Does anyone actually know 'where' Intrepid has been pumping back into the flat's?

I did notice there is an obvious improvement in the quantity of salt between the west bound I-80 viewing/rest area & the dyke but I thought that was land locked away from the flats. Joe public was driving on it yesterday.
 
Does "Save The Salt" have info they can share with us common people??

Ron Main's $40k boat ramp repair is still mostly intact & functioning at lands end but the north side of it has broken away & left a drop off.
  Sid.   

[kiwi belly tank]

Sid,
     Someday i wanna buy you some beers and yak a bit.  Your need to go see for yourself really rings my bell.
      Based on what you saw/measured, are you optimistic for BMST, WoS, WF will happen this year?  TFA ia already paid up for WoS so we are hopeful!
karl

The only time of the year I drink a couple of beer's is at the salt so if there's a WoS I'll be there but in my opinion, don't hold your breath!
  Sid.

[entropy]

Sid,
     Someday i wanna buy you some beers and yak a bit.  Your need to go see for yourself really rings my bell.
      Based on what you saw/measured, are you optimistic for BMST, WoS, WF will happen this year?  TFA ia already paid up for WoS so we are hopeful!
karl

The only time of the year I drink a couple of beer's is at the salt so if there's a WoS I'll be there but in my opinion, don't hold your breath!
  Sid.

Thanks for the response    beers will have to wait.
go or no-go, we are still prepping, doing stuff that wasn't done for SpeedWeek
karl

[Koncretekid]

The discussion above basically accuses the mining operation and BLM of damaging the Bonneville Salt Flats by reducing the thickness of the useable racing surface.  But can we prove it?  What if it is a naturally occurring phenomena and not caused by mining?  We know the surface is deteriorating, but can we prove that man is causing it?  It's not much different than the argument whether man is causing global climate change or it is a naturally occurring phase.

I propose an experiment.

Hypothesis:
Mining operations at and/or near the Bonneville Salt Flats are causing deterioration of the of the racing surface.

Samples: Obtain three sizable quantities (a 45 gallon drum or larger) of brine from 3 areas as follows:
   Sample "RS" (Racing Surface) from the racing area in the spring of the year when concentrations of minerals might be the highest and before the mining company has started pumping.
   Sample "I" (Intrepid) from the brine that is being returned to the area after mineral extraction by the mining company.
   Sample "O" (other) from an area of the salt flats where no mining is being carried out, perhaps that area which the new mining company from Canada is trying to obtain permission to mine

Method:
    Phase 1: Evaporate sufficient equal quantities of each sample large enough to be able to analyze the precipitants.   I'm sure Intrepid already knows the answer to this question.
   Phase 2: Evaporate larger quantities of each sample in inert open top vessels which would approximate the depth of the brine on the salt flats in the spring which would simulate one years evaporation.
   Phase 3: Evaporate larger quantities of each sample in inert open top vessels as deep as possible to simulate three or more years of evaporation.

Analysis:
    Phase 1: What are the concentrations of each mineral present in the samples?
   Phase 2:  What is the approximate depth of the mineral deposit from one years evaporation?
   Phase 3:  What is the approximate depth and durability (if that can be measured) of 3 years evaporation?

Conclusions:
From the above experiment, it might be possible to show that the precipitants being returned to the racing surface are not as concentrated nor as durable as that obtained from surfaces that are not or have not been mined.

If the above results are inconclusive, we can always claim "more studies are necessary."

But if the above results indicate that the returned brine water does not result in the same quantity or quality (as in suitable for racing) of precipitants as are found in naturally occurring brine, we may have the proof we need.

Who can do the above?  Hopefully, a local university with sufficient qualifications would volunteer, as it would seem to be within their capabilities and would make a good student project.

Perhaps we are beating a dead horse here, but a lot of people won't sleep until something is done and we are powerless without the proof that mining is the culprit.

Tom

[Dakin Engineering]

Sid,
   Thanks for the doing the math.
Trucking the Salt back is not gonna work.
Bulk handling of dry material of this quantity requires a conveyor system.
Intrepid's performance bond and sale of assets will pay for it.

Too simple?
I hope so...

Sam
#6062

[Milwaukee Midget]

Louise, will that discussion be on National Public Radio -- nationwide -- or just on the SLC station?  Or don't you know?  I assume i could find the station on the internet and listen to it, but I'd be happier than the dickens if every NPR station around the country had access to it and ran the show.  Let us know if you know the answer, please.

Jon, KUER uses the PRI service (Public Radio International) to distribute podcasts, but I'm not seeing where RadioWest is a syndicated program available on air other than in Utah.

Nevertheless, you can catch it live at http://radiowest.kuer.org/

11:00 AM Mountain time, Thursday - which means I'll be on the computer at Noon Central time on Thursday.

[Interested Observer]

There seems to be a lot of ill-considered flailing about in various replies given above on this subject.

Many, if not most, of the answers people are seeking are well documented by knowledgeable writers in the various written reports on the salt lay-down project cited by Hotrod earlier-on (page 14, reply #205), and in others listed on the Save-the-Salt website.  For those who would appreciate a better understanding of the operation, those would be recommended reading. 

While these reports are rather thorough in dealing with the lay-down project, the mechanics of Intrepid’s “mining” operation are not really addressed.  There are a number of questions about these things that would be interesting to know, such as:
   Where are the collection ditches and pumping installations?
   Where are the “wells” and horizontal drillings that are utilized?
   What are the flow rates and concentrations derived from the system?
   What are and have been the actual “removal rates” of brine, as opposed to the “estimated” rates?
   Given that the flats have been severely depleted of halite, where is it now, south of the highway or shipped away?

[Seldom Seen Slim]

Yo, Mr. Chris.

I can't find KUER on Apple iTunes.  I know I can get it via the link you sent, but I was hoping to find it iTunes so that more and other folks could also hear it.  Do you happen to know the name of the university (if that's what it is) that operates KUER?  I do -- just can't remember.

[NathanStewart]

Rolling all these threads together as one is a bit confusing but nonetheless, I feel an emptiness inside me today as I sit at work instead of sitting in a truck driving through the Nevada Great Basin on my way to Wendover. 

I hope the Mojave event is fun and successful but it's no Speed Week.

[DND]

I called the station in SL city and it is just a recording, then called our local station here in L.A. and they will not carry the show

Don

[salt27]

Yo, Mr. Chris.

I can't find KUER on Apple iTunes.  I know I can get it via the link you sent, but I was hoping to find it iTunes so that more and other folks could also hear it.  Do you happen to know the name of the university (if that's what it is) that operates KUER?  I do -- just can't remember.

The University of Utah.

[velocity]

The show I am participating in is RadioWest. IT CAN BE LISTENED TO BY THE ENTIRE NATION-- EITHER VIA RADIO WAVES OR STREAMLING ONLINE OR BY DOWNLOADING THE SHOW ONCE IT IS POSTED ON THE RADIO WEBSITE A FEW HOURS AFTER THE SHOW AIRS.

KUER broadcasts at 90.1 FM from a transmitter at 9,052 feet on Farnsworth Peak in the Oquirrh Mountains.
Stream KUER and KUER's HD Music Channels

To stream the RadioWest broadcast click the "Listen Live" button at the top of any of KUER webpage and select the stream you'd like to hear.

You can also stream to KUER iPhone, iPad and Android
Key features include:

    Live Streaming with pause-and-resume for all three of KUER’s streams
    On-Demand Audio of all your favorite public radio programs, including KUER’s RadioWest

IF YOU CANNOT LISTEN LIVE THROUGH THE INTERNET OR YOUR RADIO, THEN WAIT A FEW HOURS AND THE ENTIRE SHOW WILL BE POSTED FOR DOWNLOAD A FEW HOURS AFTER THE LIVE BROADCAST.

[Milwaukee Midget]

Jon -

I-phone/pad app available here . . .

http://kuer.org/listen