Saving the Salt

[hotrod]

Side note to SSS

Just a suggestion you might think about, I did this on a specialty forum a few years ago with a very positive response.

Create a "reference library" and host local copies of these public reports so they are easy for folks to find that does not require a graduate degree in google searching.
A link to the document, a one or two sentence executive summary or note about key info in the document, and the original source and date.

If you had a tips thread for Bonneville references, folks could send you a tip when they find something interesting and after checking it out put it in the "reference library".

It saved a ton of searching for the folks that used my forum and preserved some documents that magically disappeared after they got some visibility.
Just saving the formal title of the documents makes it much easier to find if the original source link becomes broken or disappears. Most documents end up saved in multiple locations so they are hard to completely eliminate even if the original source shuts down and deletes them.

It drove a lot of traffic to my web page for a couple years, and saved me a bunch of time trying to relocate good sources I had found as discussions required I point people to good information that they needed.

[Seldom Seen Slim]

Larry, I see your note - and it's bedtime here in Skandia, Michigan.  I'll take a further look at what you've got to say on the morrow.  Nancy's wiating for me now -- and I do have priorities, you know. . .

[Stan Back]

El Mirage has been positioned as the ugly step-child in the past few years.  Various reports put it as a big financial drain.  But this is from years of SCTA grouping income and expenses together -- or putting all on one entity and another on the other, I'm told.  Work is continually being done to hold each venue accountable.

El Mirage is different than Bonneville.  You're right -- it could not handle 500 entries.  It also is not necessarily a good venue for long course cars.  If Bonneville went away, would Ohio see 400 entries?

All this is pretty mute in my opinion.  I believe there's a limited lifetime for both El Mirage and Bonneville -- due to lots of reasons.  I probably won't be around to see the demise, but a couple of decades ought to do it.

"Is there an app for that?"  

[johnneilson]

Just a note about ElMirage.

IMHO, the BLM is reacting, or over-reacting to an incident in Johnson Valley a few years ago.

In a lawsuit, the BLM is ordered to pay the bulk of a wrongful death suit for a couple families of who lost members because of a lack of judgment.

Had these people heeded the safety perimeter, promoters policed the perimeter and the BLM enforced the permits this would not have happened.

Please do not think I am not sympathetic to the families losses, it was a terrible tragedy. And yes, years ago I used to be one of those who participated in the off-road racing, the real action happens on the chase roads with chase vehicles. Enough said.

Can SCTA/ElMo survive, yes, managed correctly.

I am afraid that the Salt is another issue, it is a Historic Wonder of Nature that is being mis-managed and when gone will never be recovered.
Maybe Donald Trump needs a place to build another casino/tower. I could see a highrise tower on 80 with an observation deck to see the cars running on the long course.

Trust me, the SCTA, STS and BNI folks read these forums. They choose to not participate because a pi***ng contest here means nothing.
They can be reached via the web sites contact info directly.

John

[jimmy six]

The BNI has but one charity and that is the SCTA. If there were 10 good profitable Bonnevilles making 100k per year after all expenses there would be nowhere the 1M to be spent. Yes entry $$'s would be lowered but many $$'s would go to the SCTA. As long time member I recall when every SCTA member was charged an additional $25.00 to keep solvent because of lack of SpeedWeeks.

If there was no Bonneville, El Mirage would most likely be next. The G'ment doesn't want you to have fun and spend YOUR hard earned the way you wish....They would rather take it from you and SHARE it in a much more equitable way........

[Bob Drury]

  John, in reference to your last paragraph I believe you are correct why no one from the hierarchy of STS, BNI or SCTA posts on this site.  I can somewhat understand their "p*ssing contest" excuse even if I don't agree with it.
  I do however believe that as the result of creative discourse on this site that proposed rules have been amended because of this site and some of that is from the input of non SCTA members (reminding all perusers of this site that only SCTA club members can propose rule changes).
  What bothers me is that the last posting on the STS website is from June 2014 and a Race schedule for 2015.
  On the facebook site I see the widely circulated picture of fractured salt with dirt showing taken apparently by Russ Eyers when He was trying to find a area suitable to lay out a Race Course.
  I have posted earlier Today about my belief that We all need to get behind Save the Salt and suggesting that we all donate. 
  A few months back through a misunderstanding of intermingling posts, I was taken to task for asking STS to be somewhat transparent in how much money they had at that time, how it was being used and at the very least to keep us donor's and potential donor's updated on any current happenings or plans.
  Having just visited the two sites mentioned above and although I still think STS is our only real chance at resolving the Salt Flats Issue, I am questioning my promotion of a organization that asks for our donations but seems unwilling to keep us abreast of any news, good or bad.
  This much I do know.  The People behind STS are Racers just like us and many of them like Ron Main and the Volk family have given their all to resolving the issue of Us vs the BLM if you will.
   I believe that their current policy of "loose lips sink ships" is more of a hindrance than help in receiving donations that might allow for a favorable conclusion.
                                                                                                Bob Drury

[will6er]

Louise-

Your point is well taken.
The letters should be addressed to Mr. Oliver with copies sent on up.
We need to keep him in the information stream if we want to get cooperation from him.(Don't go "behind his back")

Will Willis

[BasementBorn]

Salt laydown project

http://www.blm.gov/style/medialib/blm/ut/salt_lake_fo/bonneville_salt_flats/salt_laydown_project.Par.49376.File.dat/IMF03_White_BSF5yr_042004.pdf

Societal Need for the Salt-Laydown Project

Reported depletion of salt-crust thickness has been a concern to the public and land-managing agencies for at least 26 years (McMillan, 1974, p. 1; Lines, 1979, p. 4). This concern is based on changes in salt-crust area and volume reported between 1960 and 1988 that were measured north of the Western Pacific Railroad and I-80. McMillan (1974, p. 3) reported a 9 and 15% respective decrease in salt-crust area and volume during 1960–1974. Brooks (1991, p. calculated 20 and 30.6% respective decreases in salt-crust area and volume during 1960–1988.

Because the BLM, Reilly Industries, Inc. (Reilly), and the racing community (represented by “Save the Salt” - STS) were concerned about the reported deterioration of BSF, they attempted to replenish salt to BSF through cooperative agreements. In 1991, Reilly and STS jointly funded a salt-replenishment feasibility study that resulted in a Salt-Laydown facility plan (Bingham, 1991). According to the plan, sodium chloride (NaCl) brine would be pumped out onto BSF at a rate of 6,000 gallons per minute, 24 hours per day, for 6 months (November–April) during each year of the program. This experimental program was scheduled to operate for 5 years. The Salt-Laydown facility plan suggested that up to 7.5 million tons of salt could be deposited during a 5-year period over a 28-square-mile area.

According to Bingham (1991, p.2), the project could result in a 2-inch addition to the existing salt-crust thickness.
...

The more of the studies I read the less confident I feel that there is much more that can really be done beyond what is already being done. For the most part what we need is the weather to cooperate and give us a real wet fall/winter and a real dry spring/summer a few years in a row to help everything settle right and give us a good thick surface layer with less sediment mixed in. I think at most we could ask to have more brime pumped out to the flats but the mine can really only do so much before it becomes unfeasible for them. Only other thing I can think of is to somehow make a way to pump more brime which may mean pumping it in from an adjacent area but that requires a huge investment on someone's part. There is just no way we can expect Intrepid to shut down what they are doing and pump back brime in order to make up for the decades of damage the previous owners of the mine have done.

[vintageracecar]

Bob,

I am pretty sure John is correct with his statement. There is a very good chance that officials from the SCTA, BNI
and STS are checking in what's going on and being said on LR.com at times. Just like members from the USFRA, ECTA,
BLM and Mining Companies.
Not quite sure why the article in the Salt Lake Tribune came out at this specific time. All I can tell you, its not helping
the efforts on getting a SpeedWeek event put on in any way.

First let me state, that many of the comments and facts brought up in the "Salt 2015 Doesn't Look Good", "Bonneville
2015" and "Open letter to the BLM" threads on LR.com may very well have valid points.

At this time, the main reason you will not get many officials chiming in or making any statements is:
All of our Racing Associations have had a couple of very bad years, with many canceled events, disappointed
racers, spectators and specially the volunteers who nevertheless try their hardest to make them happening anyway.
The article in the SL Tribune has only pointed out further, that we are standing on very thin salt. (so to speak)

The SCTA and BNI Volunteers are very much aware of all the hundreds of racers and thousands of spectators,
who have once again planned their vacations, booked their flights and hotel rooms around our annual SpeedWeek event.
Not to mention, all the race vehicles, racers and spectators who are coming from across the world, just to fulfill
the biggest item on their bucket list.
I can guarantee you, the SCTA & BNI Volunteers are not taking these facts lightly.
But right now, we can't do it by our self's. We need your help. You and everybody else who loves our LSR sport.
As mentioned before, we are standing on REALLY THIN SALT here. We need everybody involved to make this event
happen, to sign off and give us their blessings, otherwise we may not be able to pull it off.
There are dozens of volunteers from the SCTA, BNI and STS working on getting things accomplished. Some of these
things, you can not always announce or put on paper.

Take my post from earlier today. In the "Bonneville 2015" thread, Page 11, Reply 152.
I mentioned that the new Ramp at Land's End is in the works, as soon as the SCTA/BNI has the location of the
courses figured out. Now what does it take to create this new ramp? Salt ! Lots of Salt !! The people who have it,
south of I80 are kind enough and letting us take it. What kind of trucks does it take to haul that much salt with?
The same people rent us the REALLY BIG TRUCKS. What kind of equipment does it take to put the salt where we need it?
The same people rent us the REALLY BIG EQUIPMENT and an operator.
Finally, the people who are in charge of our race course property, let us do it.

Now do you understand, why we REALLY could use yours and everybody else's help. Right Now. Please !!

After we get through this Awesome 67th Annual Bonneville SpeedWeek, we'll work much closer together.
How about it Bob ??

Thanks,

Mike

[distributorguy]

Can anyone post mid-week salt condition updates?

[johnneilson]

Bob,

First of all, let me Thank You personally for contributing to the STS effort.

In regards to the progress, there is one very simple solution.

Get involved. More volunteers are required.

Officials will be in Wendover early next week and will be looking over the salt to place an event.

IMO, it is not the "loose lips" issue, rather it is more "Monday armchair quarterback" syndrome, or just the "you outtas".

All the best, John

[Stainless1]

Hotrod, thanks for the links, very good info and evidence there 

Well John, you are right about the armchair quarterbacks.... plenty of those here...

distributor... feel free to go out to the salt and give us your midweek report...

I am waiting for official word about the SpeedWeek plans... If we are a go and mom intervenes later I understand...
It will be what it is 

OK... y'all go back to fretting.... I gotta work on the lakester

[gnomenator]

 Hi all, sitting here reading all the comments about saving the salt and needing mega-dollars to do it,a thought occured(unusual) ,someone mentioned the 'lost revenue' to the businesses in the area. Has anyone (STS,etc) thought about approching the Casinos (spelled mega-$) in the area? If SW is cancelled again or any of the other events, they stand to lose a severe chuck of $, maybe they could pony up some serious coin to help with the STS battle? I'm relatively new to this sport, started with USFRA 130 club and got the 'fever' BAD in 2007 and have progressed to being ready(hopefully) to run A/CGALT this year  at WOS , with eyes on maybe next year doing SW. Please be easy on me if I offended anyone ,it was just an idea that reared it ugly head about the casinos. POSITIVE WAVES for SW! Run fast, stay safe! 

[hotrod]

I think the message imbedded in those studies is that we are trying to fix a problem that was multiple decades in creation, and it will take time and persistence and a bit of luck with weather to get things stabilized.

The salt crust condition is a complex mix of variables we (the racers) have essentially no control over. Things like timing and intensity of rain fall and wind, vs hot dry weather.
There is some mix of those elements which results in near rock hard salt crust and other mixes which result in problems such as the curling platters of drying salt and ridges or mushy unconsolidated salt.

Russ Eyres, Ron Main and all the other folks who have put in countless hours monitoring and trying to fix the salt condition problems within the limitations provided by weather, bureaucracy, rules and monetary constraints deserve our heart felt thanks. They are trying to do a thankless job with limited resources, under uncontrollable circumstances.

It is good that some of us are watching things and asking important questions about who, how and why, but let's not kill the messenger here.

If you are really worried about the salt conditions find a way with in your means to DO SOMETHING positive!
Make a donation, write a letter, lend a hand what ever works with your circumstances, and abilities.
We are in the middle of a decades long campaign. No matter how much money you throw at the problem it is not going away any time soon, it will take slow steady progress to stop and turn around things that were set in motion in the 1960's.

Mother Nature will heal the salt flats if we give her a chance, and have the patience to keep at it over the long haul, but for the most part it will be your children who will see the benefit of what you do today.

[BasementBorn]

Hotrod, I think you are right. It seems that as much can be reasonably done is being done or at least looked at. They know there is a problem and they are working together to find a good solution. Like you said, contribute where you can and hope for them best from mother nature.