Saving the Salt

[JC Sparks]

 Last night I watched the video that kiwi belly tank make when he drilled his core samples.  At this point I don't think money, lawyers or pumps are going to do a lot of good on the flats, at least not for a number of years.  I think we need to be looking for a miracle. I hope I am wrong.  JC

[ronnieroadster]

Last night I watched the video that kiwi belly tank make when he drilled his core samples.  At this point I don't think money, lawyers or pumps are going to do a lot of good on the flats, at least not for a number of years.  I think we need to be looking for a miracle. I hope I am wrong.  JC

I have to agree there's no salt there to support any type of safe surface to run on. The thin salt that was once there is now gone!  For a long time everyone involved with racing on the salt knew this was happening but we all hoped the day would never come when the salt was GONE.
   Now there's a lot of finger pointing on what caused this {pretty sure we can all figure who's to blame} and guessing about what to do.  The one organization that's been involved with this problem for a long time STS in my opinion should be the group that works to get this finally resolved.  An environmental attorney needs to be found who could be consulted about the possibility of litigation until that's done were going no place and we may never be able to race again on that surface.   

[velocity]

UPDATE: MESA EXPLORATION

Nevada resident Larry Kornze, who has worked most of his life in mining, serves/served on Mesa's Board of Directors.

Larry's Son, Neil, worked in Senator Harry Reid's office from 2003-2011 before being nominated for the position of Director of Bureau of Land Management - a position he currently holds.

This is NOT an attack of Kornze's integrity, merely a bit of factual data to remember. 

[Sumner]

....I have to agree there's no salt there to support any type of safe surface to run on. The thin salt that was once there is now gone!  ...

When I did license runs two years ago the salt looked like Sid's video down at the 6-7 on the long course so it was bad then and also looked bad at the end of the run-out area on the short course we ran on.  Saw the same conditions on Cook's course when I worked it some years ago at the north end of the course and there sure wasn't much salt on the south end either for the first mile or so.

I'm not trying to say it is good or OK but I do believe we will race again on the salt.  We would of last year but the ran washed things out, not the fact there were no courses to run on.  This year it is the unusual situation of the mud flow from outside the salt onto it, that apparently has happened before but maybe not to the degree it has this year.  Things didn't look good coming off the end of the road at the test and tune last year but it happened.

The situation for sure needs to be worked on but don't give up all hope on running on the salt again.  I'm not prepared to cutup my partially completed lakester into scrap quite yet  ,

Sum

[salt]

It may be a long and expensive road to stopping the mining, but if we could get enough evidence as has been suggested here, and the best lawyer for the job, and an individual or individuals who would be willing to devote a year of their life or more to the endeavor, could we at least get a moratorium on the mining?

I think the next step is to find that best lawyer, get an estimate on the best way to attack the situation, double that estimate to make it more realistic, and start a fund.


That's a decent plan, Konkretekid.

I believe that raising the general awareness that there's a problem will help move things along. A good measure of PUBLIC OUTRAGE about the BLM allowing the wholesale destruction of an important geological and historical feature of the Western United States would help, too.


Willi
Kraut Bros.

P.S. Gerry Spence is retired.

[Bob Drury]

  Look folk's, here we are one week later and We are right back to where we were last Friday night.
  No one wants Save The Salt to go away, No one wants the people involved in Save the Salt hung at daylight.  Does any one even know How many or Whom Save the Salt  consists of? 
  My concern is not with the integrity of the people in or the goals which are pretty obvious by the name Save The Salt.  My concern is for Marlo Treit and His fifteen year build.  My concern is for Tom Burkland, Lloyd Hooley, The Bikers from England, the Boys from Montana, North Carolina and even my sorry ass.
  In my opinion either STS does not as yet have a viable plan or they must be hedging their bets on some "Big Time" announcement coming from The Department of Interior or the BLM which is hard to believe considering that they have neither admitted any wrongdoing on their part nor how long the recently announced "independent tests" might take to be implemented, reviewed, studied, set aside for fishing season, etc... ad nauseam.
  I truly believe if STS does not provide the LSR Community with some encouraging news soon, that the damage done not only to the Salt Flats but to The LSR Community itself and perhaps even to this wonderful Site may not be mendable in the next few years, if ever.
  STS can stop all the rumor's and innuendo by simply issuing a brief News Release. THEY OWE EVERY SINGLE INDIVIDUAL WHO HAS CONTRIBUTED EVEN ONE PENNY TO STS A ANSWER.  TO NOT DO SO IS CRIMINAL.
 We deserve something for what We have already given.
  How can they expect any future contributions.  To a outsider in the "Real World" this resembles a Pyramid Scheme which in NO WAY am I claiming or trying to imply.
  Right now I feel that the biggest problem with STS is STS.
                         I salute every racer who ever tracked salt back to Wendover (and especially Sid...a Kiwi trapped in Idaho for God's sake),
                                                                                        Bob Drury

[SPARKY]

 A good measure of PUBLIC OUTRAGE

There you go--- this is where we will find our JOB description---public out cry!!

[will6er]

I, too, have been considering the possibility of the Lay-down brine flowing down through the dirt.

Could injection wells solve this problem? - assuming that is the problem. This would place the brine to where it could percolate up, allowing the dirt to settle out.

There have been a number of studies - what were the conclusions?

It looks like we have "Paralysis by analysis"

Maybe the work has already been done and all that is needed is an impartial reading.

Will  Willis  #6302

[RichFox]

some pictures Cook posted on Facebook. dry early. Wet later. Still the salt isn't the quagmire some would have you believe

[desotoman]

 
Does any one even know How many or Whom Save the Salt  consists of? 
 
                                                                                        Bob Drury

Bob,

Here is information for you from their website.

Tom G.

Save The Salt Coalition

Coalition Members:

ACCUS, FIA

American Motorcyclist Association (AMA)

The Bonneville Nationals (BNI)

Blue Ribbon Coalition

Bonneville 200 MPH Club

Bonneville Motorcycle Speed Trials

Cooks Land Speed Events

East Coast Timing Association

FIA LandSpeed Records Commission

LandSpeed Productions

Motorcycle Industry Council (MIC)

Off-Road Business Association (ORBA)

Performance Warehouse Association (PWA)

Save The Salt Foundation

Source Interlink Media

Southern California Timing Association (SCTA)

Specialty Equipment Market Association (SEMA)

Speed Demon

Utah Salt Flats Racing Association (USFRA)

United States Automobile Club (USAC)

[kiwi belly tank]

I am heart broken at what I found on monday, not only for myself but for all of the LSR community.
The reason I moved from Australia to this great country was to go racing on the salt & I've been instrumental in helping many people set records since the late 80's.
Now I am near the completion of my own big bullet but I really fear my venue here has gone.
I had my handicapped daughter from NZ with me on monday at the salt, she wanted to visit the place that I love so much & we got to do that.
She asked me why I had tears in my eyes when I got back into the old van after boring the last hole & I lied to her for the first time but she saw right through me.
I still have a liner to finish & then decide what to do about my dream from there.
  Sid.
    

[Sumner]

.....  In my opinion either STS does not as yet have a viable plan or they must be hedging their bets on some "Big Time" announcement coming from The Department of Interior or the BLM which is hard to believe considering that they have neither admitted any wrongdoing on their part nor how long the recently announced "independent tests" might take to be implemented, reviewed, studied, set aside for fishing season, etc... ad nauseam.
  I truly believe if STS does not provide the LSR Community with some encouraging news soon, that the damage done not only to the Salt Flats but to The LSR Community itself and perhaps even to this wonderful Site may not be mendable in the next few years, if ever.
  STS can stop all the rumor's and innuendo by simply issuing a brief News Release. THEY OWE EVERY SINGLE INDIVIDUAL WHO HAS CONTRIBUTED EVEN ONE PENNY TO STS A ANSWER.  TO NOT DO SO IS CRIMINAL.
 We deserve something for what We have already given.
  How can they expect any future contributions.  To a outsider in the "Real World" this resembles a Pyramid Scheme which in NO WAY am I claiming or trying to imply.
  Right now I feel that the biggest problem with STS is STS.
                         I salute every racer who ever tracked salt back to Wendover (and especially Sid...a Kiwi trapped in Idaho for God's sake),
                                                                                        Bob Drury

Bob even though I know you mean good I see nothing constructive about your hammering of STS.  If you don't think the efforts of what they have done are worth any further contributions from you then don't contribute, but they have done a lot.  More than anyone else to this point.  There would of been no pumping without them.  They are building a coalition as was shown above of organizations that have many members, members outside of our small group.  These can be people that can support us and STS.

I see no need for them to lay out their 'game plan'.  They are fighting for us and I see no need for them to lay out what they have in mind for those they are fighting to see.  Would you?  If one has no faith in what they are doing then don't donate, start your own organization or pursue some other course of action but we need to not be our own worst enemies in this and fight amongst ourselves,

Sumner

[Bob Drury]

  Well Sum, as always I respect your opinion but would ask where you received verification that Save The Salt was the reason for pumping.  Tom just posted a impressive list of member organizations, company's, etc. which looks impressive on a letterhead but means nothing.
  Did they each give $500. or $100.  and the use of their logo?  Your statement implies that apparently The SCTA/BNI and USFRA apparently stood by while STS forced the BLM and Intrepid to start pumping.  Obviously We both know that all of the above helped make that happen but I would like to hear what the STS has accomplished (not including all the hard work and money spent by Ron Main and a few others) that wasn't done without the SCTA/BNI and USFRA assistance.
  I would just like someone to offer me proven evidence that STS is currently moving forward.  Trust has nothing to do with it. It's like the second coming of Christ.  Ether you believe in it or you don't.  At least that's my take on your statement and I mean that in a respectful way.
  I have asked more times than I can count on this topic:  How can those of us who are not wealthy Help STS? By being silent about no information in over 13 months while being asked to send money?
  I am Sorry Sum, and to be honest, I still don't know where I stand on the Jesus thing either.  I am old, tired and stupid, but I don't believe in anything until I see proof and that's the way I have been since I was old enough to think.  I just don't always think correctly.
                                                                              Bob

[Milwaukee Midget]

Sum, I'm feeling some of Bob's concern as well.

Tom G. posted up the list of the flagship coalition members.

As one would expect, they are well respected within the automotive racing world, and I'm grateful to see them involved, but the nature of this base of support is very narrow.

ACCUS, FIA - Makes sense, as they still certify records at Bonneville

American Motorcyclist Association (AMA) - Sponsor and sanctioning body

The Bonneville Nationals (BNI) - Sanctioning body

Blue Ribbon Coalition - Political action organization on issues regarding automotive recreation

Bonneville 200 MPH Club - Recognizing achievement in LSR

Bonneville Motorcycle Speed Trials - See AMA

Cooks Land Speed Events - Puts together the pinnacle of the sport at Bonneville

East Coast Timing Association - LSR sanctioning body, with many members who race at Bonneville

FIA LandSpeed Records Commission - See ACCUS

LandSpeed Productions - Our number one cheerleader, even Louise has expressed concern about Save the Salt's

thin track record considering all the time it has had to study and implement some type of grassroots strategic plan.

Motorcycle Industry Council (MIC) - A "national industry council" for the motorcycle industry

Off-Road Business Association (ORBA) - Sent members to a STS meeting in 2012 , indicating they shared best practices regarding organization

Performance Warehouse Association (PWA) - Essentially a trade group for decision makers

Source Interlink Media - Publisher and distributor of Motor Trend, Hot Rod, and just about every other magazine you see in the automotive enthusiast genre at Walmart

Southern California Timing Association (SCTA) - I think we know them

Specialty Equipment Market Association (SEMA) - High performance automotive trade organization

Speed Demon - World class Bonneville race team

Utah Salt Flats Racing Association (USFRA) - Sanctioning body just down the street

United States Automobile Club (USAC) - Co-sanctioning body of the Cook Shoot-out

It's a large number of interested parties who have lent their names to the program, but their outward reach and impact all overlap to a great degree.  

Broader support is needed, and I think that is one of Louise's concerns as well.

The base of support for preserving the Bonneville Salt Flats International Speedway needs to reach well beyond this minimally focused group of true believers.

I genuinely think that STS needs to broaden its outreach beyond the automotive/recreation community.

In an e-mail I received from Stuart Gosswein, he stated the following -

"We are actively engaged in working with the Utah lawmakers both in Washington and in the state to get them engaged and we are putting together a draft reclamation plan that can be implemented by the BLM with the goal of restoring the BSF within a certain number of years.  Once the reclamation plan is unveiled, we will be launching a grassroots campaign asking our enthusiasts to be vocal in getting the BLM to implement the plan."

Beyond the narrow scope of the LSR community, I think it's critical to be able to bring outside voices to this eventual proposal push.  In order to do that, I think STS will need to step outside its comfort zone - beyond the associates of the above list - and engage and recruit organizations and individuals who may not have a dog in this fight, but agree with the principle of restoring Bonneville.  

[JimL]

Down through the years we have all done a lot of cleanup and repair work on our race vehicles, after Speed Week.  I have always noticed that you cannot soak the thick salt out of an inverted motorcycle fender by simply filling it with water (as much as a shallow fender can hold) and letting it soak.

Brine water, at 100% saturation, doesnt seem to dissolve remaining hard salt.  We have all dealt with that during after event cleanup.  It takes "fresher" water, in volume, to finish the job.

I think that is why we used to be able to drive through deep water on the salt without falling through.  The salt under saturated brine remained solid because it was not dissolved by the standing water.....because the standing water was too salty to dissolve anymore hard salt.  I am just guessing, here.

The point at which the salt pan becomes too thin....might be the point where rain and snow seasons (with enough drainage) can dissolve all the way through.  When the standing water cannot absorb enough salt to be 100% brine, the salt dissolution continues any time there is surface water available. 

I wonder how many years ago the salt thickness actually became too thin, that natural weather patterns might continue the surface salt dissolution?  Maybe there was a long historical reduction occurring, but mining drastically accelerated a cycle that us humans shouldnt have messed with?

I am probably not seeing this right....hopefully someone with a better understanding of chemistry will chime in and answer my questions.

Thanks