Saving the Salt

[Ron Gibson]

Curious as to how the thick mud flowed evenly over the entire salt flats and why when there was a lot more rain water in 82 and 83 and there wasn't any mud flow over the salt racing area?? After those wet years we had some of the best racing salt in years, no mud, hard as concrete.

Ron

[Milwaukee Midget]

The stickler this year is that the mud flow happened first and spread out on the salt surface and then the lay-down salt from this years lay-down was deposited over the mud so that according to the SCTA minutes I read from their July meeting they found a 1/4 inch thick and very rough surface over about two inches of mud with the original salt that was about 2 inches thick under that and was what we have been racing on the last few years. They felt the silt had run down from the mountains during heavy rains and settled on the old salt surface and then the mining company pumped the brine out and incrusted the mud with a thin layer of salt creating a very rough surface.  Now keep in mind that those measurements and where the mud is isn't uniform over the whole basin,

Sumner

Okay, that jibes with what Mayor Crawford has been stating, but if that is the case, then when we look at the core samples Sid has been posting videos of, we should be seeing some sort of a "parfait" effect.

What I'm curious of is how much salt is trapped in the gypsum and mud, along with the recent mud flow from the mountains.  That much water combined with salt and earth would make a slurry when mixed and aggravated by flow and wind.  It seems to me that the salt will largely tend to stay in solution until acted upon by evaporation, and it seems to me that the silt, being heavier and given proper conditions, should eventually fall out of solution.  If there is salt in the mud layer beneath the salt surface, then additional water and a slow, even, dare I say "normal" weather pattern, should permit the silt to fall out of suspension and the salt to collect on the top.

Sid, did you get the impression that the mud beneath the salt had a high concentration of salt in it?

[vintageracecar]

Ron,

Here is what I observed last year, while we where out on the BSF and had most of the SpeedWeek event set up.
Wednesday evening we had some pretty bad Thunder Storms right on the lakebed. That happened at about 6 or 7 pm Mountain time.
On Thursday morning when we went out to asses the damage, it did not look bad. Course 4 was almost dry. Course 3 needed about
one day after the finish line. Course 2 had about 1/2" to 1" in spots (bottom base of cones did not show) and the rest was drying somewhat quickly. Course one had about a couple of inches over most of the course and same for the inspection area and pits.
Nothing we had not dealt with before. We had storms and that much water on the lakebed before and started running the very next day.
But, it was all WHITE and still beautiful. No mud, silt or dirt on the salt at that point.
Then the second storm came in and I don't quite remember if that was Thursday or Friday night. But what I do remember, we went out
the very next morning and the second storm must have hit right above the mountain range. There was sooo much mud, I had never seen
it like that. Here is what the courses looked like:
Course 4 was still nice and White, with very little water covering it. Course 3 was about the same with close to 2 1/2" of water standing
on it. Course 2 had about 3" at the starting line, going down course 2 it became less and then again deeper at about the 4 or 5 mile.
But, most of it was still white, with very little mud, silt or dirt in the water.
Now, coming to course 1, our Long Course. There was about 6 to 8 inches of water on the entire course, with the bottom 1 or 2 inches
being mud. The Inspection area and Pits were about a foot under water. But there was about 2 to 4 inches of mud/silt on the bottom.
There was soo much mud, that we could not drive in most of the areas. We got close enough and got out, to patrol the area by foot.
Some of us had tennis shoes, others were bare foot. There was soo much debris floating in the water and the biggest problem was,
everything hidden on the bottom in the mud/slush. There were ladders, tables, cones filled with mud, rebar etc.. We could not drive through all these areas, until we knew they were clear. Luckily, none of us got a flat or stuck out there, while we had to clean this
mess up. Of course after we where able to retrieve it all, it had to be cleaned at the car wash and put away for next year (or the next event I guess).
I am a hands on guy, kind of like Sid. I hate if someone tells us, they don't know how the mud/silt got on to the BSF. Quit the BS.
We were there when it started and there were more storms like it last year. To restrict future mud flow coming down from the mountains
on to the BSF is essential. Many teams as Landspeed Louise and Rick V. mentioned, are working on getting this ship steered in the right direction. The entire LSR family needs to stand 100% behind their efforts and give them help as much as we can.

Mike
  
  

[kiwi belly tank]

Some clarification is required on separation of layers so bare with me here because I talk in layman's terms.
  At present here are four separate layers to the flats. On top is the white salt we normally see & like to race on & at this time it varies from about "one" inch thick down to nothing. That in its self is the reason dirt has not been a problem in the past, it seperates but now there isn't enough top salt to cover it.
Under that is the brown dirt/mud layer that has washed down from the mountains with the excessive rain & that varies in thickness from about 1/4 to 1/8 inch that I found. That has separated the white salt top layer from the green-ish grey hard crystalline base layer. This has undoubtedly happened many times over history & has eventually been absorbed by a healthy system but that is not the case now. No doubt the dirt/mud has some salt content to it but it still looks like brown mud.
The crystalline base is the growing part of the natural process & also the structural strength of the whole thing. So when a vehicle gets stuck out there it has broken through that layer into the brine mud.
Not only does the crystalline layer vary in thickness from about 2" to nothing, it also varies in surface texture from as smooth as glass (see the 7 mile video) to ruff as hell & that's what is exposed at the 3-4 mile with some dirt/mud & a "sprinkling" of white salt. (see the return drive video)
  The salt flats is kinda like a frozen lake the way it stacks up, water on the bottom, next up is the ice & then snow on top.
Now nature has put a thin layer of dirt under the snow & the ice is too dense to let that pass through, then the wind (Slurry Mining) came along & blew most of the snow away. Add to that the makeup of the snow flakes has changed with the introduction of inferior snow (pumping back) & now the snow is more easily blown away, (more concentrated slurry) now we have today's conditions, absence of surface salt.
  Sid.
  
    

[crawford]

Wow Sid nailed it. The one problem I saw out on the track, and yes I have actualy been out there something like 30 or 40 times this year alone, is that we didnt have the heavy winds in feb. and March of this year, without the wind blowing the water around you get the salt combining with the silt and making a rough surface. I was out on the salt on Monday and its drying out and looking white again, but the silt is still a problem at the 3 to 5 mile post. A good racing surface can be found but it would take at least double the work and time to drag it out. A wet winter and spring and some strong winds would do wonders to the surface. But mother nature is the boss........and yes I miss all you racers!!!!!!

[Tom Liberatore]

We miss you too Mike, AND your Big Red bird!

[USFRAMONTE]

Yesterdays meeting at Totems was very well attended. Lousie did a fine job presenting the subject matter and putting forth the racers point of view. The following is a recap from Louise.

We had three 9/10PM new reports on our STS public education push hosted by
Totems. Each was 3 to 5 minutes in length and we had lead-ins on all 3
stations.

Coverage by

 KTVK/ABC Chl 4 - Kimberly Nelson
 KSL/NBC Chl 5 - Jed Boal
 KSTU/Fox Chl 13 - Jeff Adam

Additionally, Rob Sibley, producer/director Brigham Young University
broadcasting, is producing a fully-funded documentary on the great salt
Lake
of which the salt flats will be part. We will do an on-camera interview
Monday afternoon on the 14th.

We were heavily supported by USFRA members who brought out 13 cars, trucks
and motorcycles for display in the Totem's parking lot.

USFRA member Ron Christensen produced a spectacular photo display on some
half-dozen display

Legislative attendees I have cards from include:

Ryan Wilcox, Northern Utah Director for Senator Mike Lee
Jordan Giles, Constituent Services Manager for Congressman Chris Stewart
2nd District, Utah
State of Utah Governor's Office of Economic Development Brad Petersen,
Director,Office of Outdoor Education

Additionally, Layne Christensen, brother of State Senator Allen
Christensen, was in attendance and has promised to have his brother engage
more directly with the Utah Alliance.

Jinx Vesco will compile a master list of all that attended.

Overall, I was satisfied with the presentation and felt it gave all
legislative attendees a comprehensive summary of Land Speed Racing.

Dennis Sullivan noted we had a very active Q&A following the formal
presentation. Dennis noted the officials stayed for the entire
presentation and then left intermittently during the Q&A.
"LandSpeed" Louise Ann Noeth

Studio: 314|692|0247
Mobile: 805|445|8414

Member: Society of Professional Journalists; Western Automotive
Journalists; American Auto Racing Writers and Broadcasters Association

[jl222]

Don't believe everything you read!
  Sid.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonneville_Salt_Flats

  Since 1998, 10,700,000 tons of salt pumped onto the salt flats. Truck and trailer at 50,000lbs or 25 tons = how many truck
(equivalent) loads delivered?  428,000 truck loads YEA RIGHT.

  Save The Salt...Don't believe every thing your told.

               JL222

  Looking for how much a cubic yard of salt weighs to figure out how much area 10,700,000 tons of salt covers, I came across
a density chart which had different materials listed in lbs. per cu ft. Salt was 75lbs per cu ft. As their is 27 cu ft per cu yd,
75 X 27=2025 lbs per yd just over a ton

  So 10,700,000 tons of salt also equal 10,700,000 cu yds. of salt 

  1 acre is 43,560 sq ft, divided into 10,700,000 =245 acres of salt 3 ft deep, at 4 in thick its 9 times the area or 2205 acres.
  2 in is 4410 acres.

  Yeah Right, where is it?

                          JL222

[USFRAMONTE]

I arrived at work and found that my coworkers have generously started a donation campaign to help us restore the salt flats.

[Sumner]

Don't believe everything you read!
  Sid.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonneville_Salt_Flats

  Since 1998, 10,700,000 tons of salt pumped onto the salt flats. Truck and trailer at 50,000lbs or 25 tons = how many truck
(equivalent) loads delivered?  428,000 truck loads YEA RIGHT.

  Save The Salt...Don't believe every thing your told.

               JL222

  Looking for how much a cubic yard of salt weighs to figure out how much area 10,700,000 tons of salt covers, I came across
a density chart which had different materials listed in lbs. per cu ft. Salt was 75lbs per cu ft. As their is 27 cu ft per cu yd,
75 X 27=2025 lbs per yd just over a ton

  So 10,700,000 tons of salt also equal 10,700,000 cu yds. of salt 

  1 acre is 43,560 sq ft, divided into 10,700,000 =245 acres of salt 3 ft deep, at 4 in thick its 9 times the area or 2205 acres.
  2 in is 4410 acres.

  Yeah Right, where is it?

                          JL222

I didn't recheck your figures but lets say that the race/pit/and other nearby areas are 2 miles wide by 10 miles long.  That is 20 square miles or 12,800 acres of area that the lay-down salt could settle over (and I think it is even more area than that).  If so then 10 million tons isn't going to add much thickness.

Personally I think the lay-down just helped to slow the decrease in thickness due to the mining and obviosly there needs to be a lot more laid back down,

Sumner

[kiwi belly tank]

I agree Sum but I cant decide if the pumping prolonged the loss or accelerated it due to contamination & I likely never will.
  Sid.

[donpearsall]

Monte, thanks for the report.
One thing that concerns me is that from our little perspective as racers we seem to be the only ones concerned about the Salt Flats. Where is the outrage from the rest of the public? These are public lands, a national treasure, a "managed" land by the BLM. It is used for all kinds of things such as movies, commercials, photography, etc.

I don't think we will get much sympathy from the public if we whine that we are losing a racing track. To them we are just rich tycoons who only build cars and motorcycles at our leisure and then jet to Paris for a weekend. The reality TV shows that focus on those oddballs building cars and bikes do us no favors. To the public we a tiny minority who needs no sympathy.

So instead of focusing on how the RACERS are losing something they want, what about educating the public and politicians to see that the NATION is losing a treasure? Something along the lines that the California Redwood Forest is being logged. It is analogous.

Don

[Ron Gibson]

I don't know the pumping schedule of Intrepid or how much. The average rainfall at Wendover is 9.22 inches a year. That much fresh water dissolves about 2.5 inches of salt per year . If most of it is pumped off, that is a substantial salt loss. I still find it weird that every one talks about cores of subterranean layers. What about the 'FEET' of salt crust that is gone, no mention of that.

Ron

[tauruck]

You guys took all the salt home with you.
Under your cars, in the wheel wells, under trailers etc.
We won't mention the hire cars either.
I've done my home work.

[will6er]

Tauruck-

I have my bucket of salt on the shelf ready for my next trip.
Just for fun - how many others are in the same situation?

Will Willis #6302