Author Topic: Milwaukee Midget  (Read 3318223 times)

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Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #3360 on: November 23, 2013, 07:36:48 PM »
I'm DYING.  :-D

Thanks, Freud!  :cheers:  :cheers:  :cheers:

http://www.youtube.com/embed/HG_wfMK7dko?rel=0

"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

Offline fordboy628

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #3361 on: November 24, 2013, 11:58:45 PM »
Beer Heros. It's a must watch.

Long but wait for the entire download.

Watch<http://www.youtube.com/embed/HG_wfMK7dko?rel=0>

FREUD

Relatively harmless, considering they could have jacked with the electric service . . . . . . . .

Did they use Foster's to purge the water?
 :cheers:
F/B
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Offline Tman

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #3362 on: November 25, 2013, 09:06:27 AM »
I caught that clip several week back, pretty funny!

Offline Ron Gibson

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #3363 on: November 25, 2013, 10:43:33 AM »
Since the beer was just sitting in the crawl space, I presume it must be about the same temperature as inside a Lucas refrigerator. :cheers: :cheers:

Ron
Life is an abrasive. Whether you get ground away or polished to a shine depends on what you are made of.

Offline Frankie7799

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #3364 on: November 25, 2013, 10:53:15 AM »
Thats awesome!!!  :cheers:

Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #3365 on: November 28, 2013, 12:31:22 PM »
Happy Thanksgiving, all!

I promised some pics once the new/used cam drive arrived.



It appears to be an early MiniMania piece, probably from the mid 1990’s.  It’s a 52 tooth belt, 3/8 pitch – seems to have been used very little and is in good shape. 



Adjustment equals a little better than a full tooth – so there will be no inaccessible points on the cam timing.
A Kevlar replacement belt is on order, and while the one shipped with the piece appears to have never been used, I have no idea how old it is.  A replacement belt is cheaper than pistons, valves, rods, heads  –  cheaper than even the head gasket, so I will not succumb to the false economy of using the old one.

The chain operates in oil – the belt does not.  There are seals that separate the belt housing from the rest of the engine – both look to be unused . . .



I have two concerns regarding using this – both of which I’ll address before I install it.  First off, the venting from the front of the engine that would normally exit out of the original cam cover is directed to the bung at the top of the case.  The vent hole is too small to be effective – I’ll bore that out a bit . . .

 

And the cam pulley is stout beyond all earthly reason.  It weighs in at 520 grams, which is about half again the weight of the stock piece, and about twice what the chain vernier piece weighs.  As I live north of the cheddar curtain, I’ll be swissing it.  It will never be as light as the other race piece, but right now, it’s simply excessively heavy.



During the dynothon, Mark and I were able to get a lot of pulls in during a short period of time.  We were able to quickly determine which direction to go with jets, air horns – we even tested three different exhaust systems.  I’ll point out that Fordboy was the one who put together the plan for the day, and it all hinged on both of us being loaded for bear – if we thought we might need it, we brought it.

What we weren’t able to do was adjust cam timing.  The stock cover would have required virtually tearing the front end off of the engine to access the vernier timing sprocket, so we weren’t able to maximize cam timing, or even know if we had already done so.

This kit will turn that procedure into a 10 minute operation, and probably turn two days on the dyno into one.  Not a bad deal at $150.00 – although I still need to make a few investments in it.

A HUGE thanks to ragergeo for pointing this out to me!
"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

Offline DND

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #3366 on: November 28, 2013, 01:33:56 PM »
Hi Chris

You might want to leave that cam hub solid, the more you lighten it up the more cam harmonics get transferred to the belt teeth that is not good for belt life

G Don

Offline Dynoroom

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #3367 on: November 28, 2013, 06:33:58 PM »
Don, you might be right being that this is for a 4 cylinder engine, but here is my aluminum cam belt drive hub with 4 years of passes at Bonneville, El Mirage (note the dirt and wear) and even a few dyno passes all in the 8500 - 9000 rpm range. I'm guessing Chris can lighten the load a bit.... 
Michael LeFevers
Kugel and LeFevers Pontiac Firebird

Without Data You're Just Another Guy With An Opinion!

Racing is just a series of "Problem Solving" events that allow you to spend money & make noise...

Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #3368 on: November 28, 2013, 08:24:19 PM »
The general wrap on this conversion, when used on the street, is that the fiberglass belt is good for about 20,000 miles, the Kevlar, ~50,000.

I think I put 33 miles on the car last year.

One other niggling concern I DO have is that when the block was align honed, a smidgen seems to have been taken off of the top of the journal.  The chain was a touch loose, as was the water pump belt arrangement Fordboy whipped up, based on an unmolested block.

The new belt case is substantial enough to permit a mod to install a tensioner, but let's see how it looks when I get it all mocked up.  I really think I need to be able to nail the cam adjustment in order to maximize the combination on the dyno, and the ability to dial it in so quickly takes a lot of frustration out of the equation. 

On top of that, the tensioner I have in it right now was a bit of a gamble - a modified Triumph piece, which is somewhat questionably attached to the backplate. I'd like to trade that niggling worry for some other niggling worry.  :-D
"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

Offline Jack Gifford

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #3369 on: November 29, 2013, 01:12:32 AM »
... I really think I need to be able to nail the cam adjustment in order to maximize the combination...
I think that's true for all of us! :-)

Nice score on the drive system- looks good.

I built a prototype variable-phasing geardrive which is the ultimate in quickness- phasing can vary dynamically while running! :-o It functioned well on test-running an engine (not on a dyno). But it's now boxed up on the shelf- the noise of the straight-cut gears was too "uncivilized" for the renovated GMC truck the engine is in. The control is presently an electric servo that simply retards cam timing (up to 16 crank degrees) above a set RPM (using any RPM signal- tach shift light, etc.). The servo has a manual mode which would facilitate engine tuning while running on a dyno.

Anybody racing a Pontiac V8 who could put it to good use? :roll:
I'm not really trying to sell it... but if anyone had four of these old-timey trumpet-shaped pipes to trade??? 8-)
« Last Edit: November 29, 2013, 01:35:40 AM by Jack Gifford »
M/T Pontiac hemi guru
F/BFL 1-mile Loring record 2020

Offline Rex Schimmer

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #3370 on: November 29, 2013, 01:18:10 PM »
OK Jack you not going to get off easy on this one! I can see that what ever is behind the front plate on your phasing set up is driven in and out by the small DC (?) motor that is connected to a worm drive that swings the arm back and forth to move the "phaser" but I don't quite get what the phaser actually is. Obviously some sort of gear(?) but how can you move it back and forth to change the cam phase without screwing up the backlash between the gears so I obviously need a little more info but it is still a neat set up, especially because it worked! Please "dilute my ignorance".

Rex
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Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #3371 on: November 29, 2013, 01:38:56 PM »
Rex, I'm glad you asked, because I've spent the better part of the morning trying to figure out what's behind the front plate of this voodoo drive.   

Jack - ya got me.  I'm stumped. 

My best guess so far would be some sort of planetary gear drive with a cantilevered swing arm to vary the axis, but if I were to put it into the form of a question, Alex Trebek would dock me the daily double.  :-D
"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

Offline DND

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #3372 on: November 29, 2013, 03:06:27 PM »
On top of that if that moving Gizmo over giz's you might be in real trouble in the Valve to Piston dept

I would rather check it & set it then some lock wire on the engine stand , and know the cam gear is not going to come loose while running

Just a old school guy in the engine stuff

G Don

Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #3373 on: November 29, 2013, 07:09:51 PM »
With a big Poncho, I'm thinking Jack might have a bit more wiggle room than I do.

Most Pontiacs have more CCs in one combustion chamber than I do in all four!
"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

Offline DaveL

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #3374 on: November 29, 2013, 07:22:11 PM »
My guess. Two idler gears on a common shaft, at least one sliding on a helical spline. The control rod adjusts the axial position of the idler gears.
Dave.