Milwaukee Midget

[Sumner]

Fordboy/Midget:
Doing the calculations with the parameters as listed below, the results are also as listed below.  While the frontal area, drag coefficient, and driveline efficiency are estimates, they seem to be reasonable values, and show that the actual results from the salt can be consistent with predictions.  (Previous encounters with Bonneville Pro here on the forum have shown it to be less than confidence inspiring.)  
After Speed Weeks last year you guys vowed to distill the area and drag coefficient from the results, but I don’t remember ever seeing them.  Did this ever get done, or is it considered proprietary info?
So, for what it’s worth:

Speed   118.7   mph
Area   15   sq-ft
Cd   0.45
Aero drag   215    lb
Weight      1810   lb
Tire pressure   60   psi
Rolling drag   28   lb
Total drag   243   lb
Hp aero      68
Hp rolling     9
Hp total      77
Driveline eff.   0.9
Engine Hp at Bonneville   85.6
Engine Hp at Sea Level   93.4

Thanks, I've wondered how the Spreadsheet I have on my site would compare to another source....



http://1fatgmc.com/car/Temp-1/Milwaukee%20Midget-1.jpg

Using your input data it came up pretty close with 82 RWHP (vs. 77) needed.

The spreadsheet is here if anyone is interested.  Use the one named "HP Needed for a Lakester or Car to Run a Certain MPH" ......

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/bvillecar/bville-spreadsheet-index.html

Sum

[Tman]

Sum, my computer will not open that file?

[Sumner]

Sum, my computer will not open that file?

Can you save it?  It is in excel format.  I used the free Open Office software to generate it and download it.

Scottie had a similar sounding problem and I sent the file as an attachment with an email and then he was able to use it.  If that would help I could send it to you that way.  PM me an e-mail address if you want to try that.  Also anyone else can do likewise that is having a problem with any of the spreadsheets on that page.  Not sure why they download and work for some and not others.

Also once downloaded you usually have to save it under a different name and re-open it before you can enter your data.  Again some do and some don't have to do that,

Sum

[fordboy628]

Sum, my computer will not open that file?

Can you save it?  It is in excel format.  I used the free Open Office software to generate it and download it.

Scottie had a similar sounding problem and I sent the file as an attachment with an email and then he was able to use it.  If that would help I could send it to you that way.  PM me an e-mail address if you want to try that.  Also anyone else can do likewise that is having a problem with any of the spreadsheets on that page.  Not sure why they download and work for some and not others.

Also once downloaded you usually have to save it under a different name and re-open it before you can enter your data.  Again some do and some don't have to do that,

Sum

I've found it usually depends on what version of Windows/Microsoft Office/Excel you have.   Some home/economy versions do not support editing imported documents/spreadsheets.   It is usually no problem with the full featured versions of the programs, AKA, "You get what you pay for"/Why Bill Gates is the anti-christ.
 
Fordboy

[fordboy628]

Thanks Sumner.    I'm finding your spreadsheet helpful.
 
Fordboy

[fordboy628]

Star, er, Compression Ratio Wars . . .

Pommy pigmy,

This is what I was talking about.   These samples are 948 pistons from another galaxy, far, far away . . . . . . .  although the principal is the same.   Probably don't need this much dome, but we would need to calculate the volume required for the C/R desired.   The flat top ran OK, but the domed piston with its' higher C/R, made more bhp, in spite of the added complexity.   Valve clearance notches would be needed for the Grenade, adding further complexity.    The low hanging fruit has already been picked . . . . . . . .

             

I am still of the opinion that a C/R increase will impact bhp output more than widening the LCA of the cam.    Not sure on the cost differences between the 2 options.    You will need to consult your records.
 
Fordboy

[fordboy628]

midget,

Any word on the x-files?    No micro-film please, transfer by 3.5" diskette, as mandated by Comrade Putin.

Da Svidaniya
Boris

Boris, I'm only one spy.
 
These things must be handled discretely and with a deft hand. 

Do you really want me to say where I'm Putin that diskette?

My autonomy has been disrupted by emergency servitude to the republic of Oak Creek, throwing yesterday into a small scale Crimean Crackdown.  But after I deliver low level wireless telecommunications devices ordered by the Milwaukee Collective Education Authority to the opera house on the West Bank, I will back-channel the encrypted information file and the hallowed relic, the Block of Abingdon, to our operatives in the Western consulate in Butler.

Comrade Conrad
Moscow Midget   

                 ?

[Milwaukee Midget]

                 ?

Ah, yes - undersecretary of the consulate had not been in contact with his operative.

[251ENG]

Hello All

Fordboy , ref the damaged swiftune head .

From what you have said this head seams to have had a hard previous life with damage to the inlet valve seats . I would say it probably originally had 1.456" ( 37mm) inlet valves and someone has tried to reclaim the head by re-cutting seats and fitting oversize 1.475" ( 37.5mm )valves .

Is this an 8 insert head or an old head with just exhaust inserts fitted ?. This would explain the wear on the inlets and the exhausts still on original size valves.

Seat cutting on big valve A series is always a trade off between producing a desirable top seat angle and having the angles meet to form a sharp edge that promotes cracking.

I have never had a water jacket hole like that on a 12G 940 but it is VERY common on AEG 163 heads . Sometimes I have taken up to 0.100" out of 12G 940 to loose bad valve seat jobs.

[fordboy628]

Hello All

Fordboy , ref the damaged swiftune head .

From what you have said this head seams to have had a hard previous life with damage to the inlet valve seats . I would say it probably originally had 1.456" ( 37mm) inlet valves and someone has tried to reclaim the head by re-cutting seats and fitting oversize 1.475" ( 37.5mm )valves .   The head was originally supplied with 37.5mm inlet valves.   Problem is "someone" tried to make it better.

Is this an 8 insert head or an old head with just exhaust inserts fitted ?   No valve seat inserts in this head at all.   The client refuses to use a race head with seat inserts.   "Someone" put some seats in an older head of his, and they fell out at racing speed, causing massive damage to the engine.   Chuffed it.
This would explain the wear on the inlets and the exhausts still on original size valves.

Seat cutting on big valve A series is always a trade off between producing a desirable top seat angle and having the angles meet to form a sharp edge that promotes cracking.   This is my experience as well.

I have never had a water jacket hole like that on a 12G 940 but it is VERY common on AEG 163 heads . Sometimes I have taken up to 0.100" out of 12G 940 to loose bad valve seat jobs.     I typically do not like to "deepen" the chamber to reclaim race heads.    It shortens the short side radius of the valve pocket, which is the wrong thing to do for flow.    Probably OK for street heads though.

I'm thinking that this head just has a casting void in that area between the 2 inlet valves.    It was OK until "someone" sunk the valve and then tried to "blend in" the sunken valve seat with a larger diameter overcut.

I think the better repair course would have been to install iron or b/copper valve seats, but the client was against that.

This idea that BMC heads can't hold seats is bs.   It does have to be done carefully and std seat inserts typically will not work.    But I have repaired lots of BMC (and Ford) racing cylinder heads with custom iron valve seats, as long as the head is not "overported" in the bowl area.   They all work fine, BUT, you cannot overheat the head!!
 
Fordboy

[251ENG]

Hello All

I,ve fitted hundered,s of inserts in A-series heads and only ever had 2 come out , both on engines that were overheated . One spent all day  on a rolling road and the other went down the motorway with no water in it !!!

As you said , some ported heads ( or AEG 163,s ) give you no material to seat the inserts on to .

[fordboy628]

Kettle Engine Porn!!!

Simon,

Just how rare is a Rover K series, DOHC K16 MPI 1100 (1120cc actual), compared to a DOHC K16 MPI 1400?  (1398cc actual)

Would you be able to let me know the specifics of each:

Bore
Stroke
Rod length
Intake valve dia
Exhaust valve dia
Max amount of lift/duration stock cam core can provide

Been using Wikipedia, but the info there is limited:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rover_K-series_engine#1100

Are there any British tuners that provide bits for the K16?

Etc, etc, etc.

I did find this interesting site:

http://kengine.dvapower.com/

Toward the end, a dyno graph shows about 245 bhp from a 1.7L, presumably full race spec.    Uhhmm, that scales down to 144 bhp @ 1.0L . . . . . . . . .  
BTW, those numbers are rear wheel bhp . . . .

Thanks in advance.
 
NewlyconvertedtothechurchoftheRoverboy

P.S.  midget,   NO F1 ROD/STROKE RATIOS!!!!!

[jacksoni]

Since you bring up the Rover K, have you looked at the BMW twin cam conversion? There was a turbo Mini running one at the salt 2012. I know MM has threatened a couple of times to go looking for  a DOHC of some sort.

[Milwaukee Midget]

Since you bring up the Rover K, have you looked at the BMW twin cam conversion? There was a turbo Mini running one at the salt 2012. I know MM has threatened a couple of times to go looking for  a DOHC of some sort.

I've corresponded with the Kiwis - Essentially, they've built the same short-stroke A series block I have.  They are planning on heading back to Bonneville this year, and I intend to buy them beer.

Unfortunately, the BMW head would knock me out of GT into Modified.  But because engine swaps are allowed in GT - within the same automobile manufacturer - a destroked K series would be a quick way to go DOHC and remain rule compliant.

If I stretched it, seeing as British Leyland owned Coventry, I COULD try a Climax engine, but if I'm going to spend that kind of money on a British engine, it'd be cheaper to build a Jaguar 6.

Yeah - you know there's something's wrong when building a Jag engine is a cost effective alternative to a highly sought-after forklift motor . . .

[Milwaukee Midget]

Fordboy - I have the factory service manual on CD for the K.