Milwaukee Midget

[Milwaukee Midget]

You're right about the Corvair/Vega/Monza rims. That's where I got my 13 x 7 for my Arkley/Sprite. You already have steel rims. The centers can be cut out and repositioned.

Dick has a bunch of $5 one day passes. He races at 1:00 on Sun. Let me know if you're interested. I'll gift you a set.

Let me get back to you on the passes - I missed the Sprints this year, and this could make a nice getaway for our anniversary.

The rims are already at full offset - no room to reposition.

How does this effect your steering /contact patch geometry Chris?
Is the back coming down some as well or is it all turning into take?

Sorry for dumb questions.
jon

No dumb questions here.  Camber looks to be about the same, but I expect the toe-in will need to be adjusted.

Jury's out on the rear end, but my inclination it to level the whole thing out a bit - if for no other reason than aesthetics.

Let's see how ambitious I am . . .

[jacksoni]

I suspect you may have posted it somewhere in this 218 pages but so forgive me for asking...

What size front tire are you running now?

[Geo]

Hey Chris,

The only change to think about is the change to scrub radius.  This comes into play when you jump on the brakes.  But then you have no front brakes so this may be a moot point. And the difference may not be enough to matter, afterall you are working on a midget car. 

Glad you are taking this record seriously.  Now back to my beer. 

Geo

[Jon]

Scrub radius is what I was thinking of as well, can make a car wander if surface isn't good.

Cheers
jon

[fordboy628]

But the rod ratio would be phenominal!!! (Insert sarcasm) and let you make some high rpm at a safer piston speed!!! (End sarcasm)

Uhhhmmm,

IMHO . . . . .

I realize the context of your remark, BUT, you really, really, want to think very hard about running F/1 type rod length/stroke ratios . . . . . .   for instance:

A/    they increase the piston dwell at TDC/overlap;
2/    they decrease the room available for valve lift @ TDC/overlap with vertical/nearly vertical valves;
d/    the result of the above two items creates a need for very efficient (ie: higher than normal) low-lift & mid-lift inlet tract flow values to meet the required flow demand.
       Most 2 valve engine designs CANNOT achieve the needed flow capability with very high rod ratios.   MOST 4 valve engines can achieve the required flow demand because
       of the excellent low-lift/mid-lift flow of MOST 4 valve designs.
x/    etc, etc, etc . . . . . .

As I have opined MANY times before: "It's Complicated . . . . ."

Before you opt for a "SUPER" long rod/stroke ratio, I would suggest you:

A/    model the required flow demand for the bhp output required;
2/    model the build geometry at the proposed rod stroke ratio (or ratios . . . ) to determine valve lift achievable;
d/    flow the complete inlet tract to determine what percentage of flow demand can be fulfilled.

THINK IT THROUGH FIRST, BEFORE PURCHASING EXPENSIVE PARTS . . . . . . . .
 
Fordboy

[Crackerman]

Yes, i understand there is a lot more to rod/stroke ratio and the effects it has on power and torque curves.
I was hoping the words i wrote in parentheses would indicate the need to not be taken seriously. 

[Milwaukee Midget]

What size front tire are you running now?

22" M&H drag fronts on custom 15" wheels.

As far as scrub radius is concerned, eying it up with a straight edge , it's clear that there it's currently positive, which likely explains why it darted on me when I tried pulling it down at speed.  Pulling the wheels in a half-inch will probably put me at about zero, maybe still a bit positive - but that's just eying it up.

[wisdonm]

Big discussions about this at the Runoffs.

a. Wouldn't it be easier/safer to move the suspension mounting holes inward?

b. Wouldn't it be better to have shorter, tubular (if legal) A arms. You know, for safety, not performance advantages. wink, wink

c. Some Honda rims are 4 x 4.

[Milwaukee Midget]

Big discussions about this at the Runoffs.

a. Wouldn't it be easier/safer to move the suspension mounting holes inward?

b. Wouldn't it be better to have shorter, tubular (if legal) A arms. You know, for safety, not performance advantages. wink, wink

c. Some Honda rims are 4 x 4.

I bet you'd find those Honda wheels are actually 100 mm.  And even if they were 4 on 4, I'd be looking for a narrow 13 or 14 with a T rating or a narrow race tire.  I spent months looking for an alternative - what I have is the best I could come up with.

As far as moving the mounting points further in, if I'm going to go that far, I can go as far as hanging a shortened Econoline drop axle under it with parallel leafs and still be legal.  Suspension is open, which means alternatives become even more complicated.  Realistically, though, I really don't have the chops to do anything as critical as relocating A-arms.

As far a safety is concerned, if you've ever seen my welding, you'd be looking at remachining the hubs and spindles, too. 

[DND]

Hi Chris

Do you have some contact info for Podunk in Indiana, as I need some machine work done

Thanks, Don

[Milwaukee Midget]

http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,12122.msg226928.html#msg226928

He has a whole "For Sale" thread for his services. 

[wisdonm]

Dick mentioned today, that he makes custom off-set bushings for Sprigets. These are used to change the camber. Tilt the tire in and up into the fender. Narrower tire foot print is an added benefit.

[Milwaukee Midget]

Dick mentioned today, that he makes custom off-set bushings for Sprigets. These are used to change the camber. Tilt the tire in and up into the fender. Narrower tire foot print is an added benefit.

Hmmmm . . .

How would that work on a straight-away?  Most of the cars I've seen set up with extreme camber were on short, twisty tracks.

A 1/4 inch offset at the upper control arm would net me about 1/2 inch at the top, but the rubbing occurs about 2/3 the way up the tire on the outside.

How much offset can he put into 'em?.

[Interested Observer]

Chris:
Back to the head gasket for a moment--
It seems that the gasket performed well with the exception of the slight leakage between #2 and #3, and it would be nice to be able to continue using it (a standard gasket) in lieu of a more involved solution.  Also, it appears that there is not a lot of acreage on that 2-3 bridge for O-rings.  Which brings up some questions for further musings on the problem.
Have you put a straight-edge across the head and block at the bridge to see if either has locally recessed itself?
For that matter, are the head and block still reasonably flat in an overall sense?
What was the torque and re-torque history, qualitatively?
Did you use any sealing materials besides the gasket itself?
Do you have photos of the used gasket, and maybe details of the 2-3 ligament?
What style gasket is it, and the Cometic part number?
Were there any hints of other inter-cylinder leakage or other failed behavior?

[Milwaukee Midget]

Answers in Red -

Chris:
Back to the head gasket for a moment--
It seems that the gasket performed well with the exception of the slight leakage between #2 and #3, and it would be nice to be able to continue using it (a standard gasket) in lieu of a more involved solution.  Also, it appears that there is not a lot of acreage on that 2-3 bridge for O-rings.  Which brings up some questions for further musings on the problem.
Have you put a straight-edge across the head and block at the bridge to see if either has locally recessed itself?

Not yet.

For that matter, are the head and block still reasonably flat in an overall sense?

Yes.

What was the torque and re-torque history, qualitatively?

Have to look up the spec, but it was all done prior to assembly, with the exception of when we ran in the cam on the outer springs - after that, we re-torqued it hot - or warm, at least.  The rocker pedestals are held down with the head studs.

Did you use any sealing materials besides the gasket itself?

No - Cometic doesn't recommend it.

Do you have photos of the used gasket, and maybe details of the 2-3 ligament?

Not the gasket - but it's hanging on the wall of the garage - There was no indication of any compromise between the two cylinders.

What style gasket is it, and the Cometic part number?

MLS - .036 thick.  I found these to squish as much as .004.

Were there any hints of other inter-cylinder leakage or other failed behavior?

On the last tear-down after Maxton in 2011 - same story, but much less this time.