Milwaukee Midget

[38flattie]

Haha!

Sometimes, I get lost on this thread...

[gearheadeh]

This is a direct quote of the bumper sticker which cost "Group 44" their Lucas sponsorship dollars, circa 1980.   The bumper sticker was displayed on the rear of all of their team cars at the SCCA Runoffs @ Road Atlanta.  It read:

Question,  "Why do the British drink warm beer?"    Answer,  "Because they have Lucas refrigerators!"

True story, I was there with the outraged Lucas Sales reps...............

Fordboy          

That is one for the Joke section........truth is funnier than comedy eh!

[Milwaukee Midget]

Think about this a minute -

Does anybody tell "Autolite" jokes?
Does anybody tell "Delco" jokes?
Does anybody tell "Bosch" jokes?

The anecdotal evidence as to the problems with Lucas products is damning due to its sheer volume.
 
The response from Lucasites has often been that the products were misapplied, to which I say, as an OEM to BMC/Leyland/Rover/Jensen, if they continued to let their products be "misapplied" for OVER 70 YEARS, then they share a great deal of culpability in the demise of their reputation - including its diminishment to "joke status".

[salt27]

As for Autolite, I recall being stranded several times [once in a blizzard] in a Ford pickup untill I learned to carry a spare ignition module.
My wife put a moritorium on Fords that still stands 30 years later.

   Don

[grumm441]

As for Autolite, I recall being stranded several times [once in a blizzard] in a Ford pickup untill I learned to carry a spare ignition module.
My wife put a moritorium on Fords that still stands 30 years later.

   Don

I was looking for something in the toolbox in the trunk of my Monaro (GM Car) the other day, and found one of those ford ignition modules
G

[Milwaukee Midget]

Back to the DE-LUCASIZED Midget.

Made a trip to the Fordboy ranch – a gracious and brilliant host.  He took some more measurements, specifically the center lengths of the intake and exhaust ports.  After learning the technique and the reasoning, I measured up my manifolds, carb and trumpets.  He’s looking to come up with the optimum intake runner length, which includes all components in the intake.  Additionally, I’ve ordered up a ½ thick piece of Lexan to build a flow bench adapter suitable for a 2.780 bore.  C&S has a flow bench, but no adapter to accurately work with a bore this small.  We have a cheapo Chinese turret lathe at work on which I’ll be able to turn out a piece of PVC to extend the adapter and recreate what I hope will be a decent approximation of the cylinder.  This should prove to be interesting – I ran a Warner & Swasey # 5 a number of years ago, but I haven’t touched a lathe in 25 years. 

I WILL remember to remove the chuck key – one of my starkest memories of my mechanical ineptitude was sending one through the wall of a steel pole building and digging it out of a snow bank in back of the shop.  Good thing I had it in reverse – it would have either impaled me or torn my shoulder off.  A little silicone sealer, a scrap piece of sheet metal and a fistful of pop rivets bandaged the building – I doubt if repairs to myself would have been so easy.

The engine and transmission are loose from their moorings.  Oil is drained, electricals tucked off to the side and zip-tied, shift lever out, driveshaft unbolted.  I’ll grab a buddy’s engine hoist this week – I will not be going back to Area Rental.  Still have to disconnect the clutch slave. 

Speaking of clutch, Fordboy put aside a SAAB slave cylinder.  He has my spare transmission case, and I’ve got some measuring to do when I pull the engine and tranny apart – we’ll see if this can be made to work. 

Lost a friend this week.  Bill Alexander Sr. passed away.  He was the man who made up the wooden steering wheel I originally had on this car. 



I’ve since needed to go to a quick release wheel, but the hub is the same as my MGB – so I think that’s where I’ll be moving it to.  His son, Bill Jr., has been a fast friend ever since I moved to Wisconsin – he’s up from Texas for the week, and he occasionally reads this, so Bill – I’m raising a Heineken to your dad.

I’ll never know how he drank this stuff . . .

[Dr Goggles]

why would you want a car that went like a corolla?
G

Ah, Grasshopper, the tortoise and the hare...........

Yeah, Britannia may have ruled the ocean, but they never built a car that would drive through a puddle without conking out.

I doubt a Corolla powertrain would pull a trailer through Wyoming.

And, of course, the correct response to that statement is, "What makes you think a Rover would get you past Iowa?"

Rover ? are you currently dripping molten wax on your bare skin , burning yourself with a lit cigarette or some other masochist rite?

Based on an early 1960's GM design - and if I wanted to start getting sarcastic, I could draw parallels . . .

But I'm in too good of a mood - Nick Lowe was OUTSTANDING this evening.   

Good ol Nick....great reviews here

A Rover won't get you into too much trouble, but it won't get you out of ANY...........

[fordboy628]

Midget,

Some flow numbers based on Carb CFM from choke sizes.  This is more useful for the Venturi/Throttle Ratio #'s.   Calculated from my copy of PipeMax (Tm) software.





Fordboy

[fordboy628]

Midget,

Basic data page 1 for my PipeMax (Tm) model of your engine.   Page 2 lists various engine functions based on the build geometry from inputs on page 1.   Piston depth @ 'X' degrees of crank angle is of interest for valve to piston clearance calculations needed to determine MAXIMUM valve/cam lift per crank degree that can be 'MAXIMUM CRAMMED'.

BTW, your new build motto should be: 'MAXIMUM CRAM'  since that is what it will take to raise C/R, AND, have MAX VALVE LIFT to feed/meet cylinder demand @rpm required.   Any time flow through inlet tract cannot meet engine requirements/demand, output (both torque & hp) will suffer.   Will need head flow #'s next.





What should be of note here is that based on the build geometry, piston dwell @/around TDC is quite a bit more than "usual"   This factor, in combination with the small displacement/cylinder AND small chamber volume requirement, is the prime issue limiting the maximum amount of valve lift that the engine geometry will allow.   It is already obvious to me that an unusual combination of lowered total cam duration, widened cam LCA and MAX cam flank accelleration is going to be necessary.

Fordboy

[38flattie]

Can you get new cam blanks Chris, or will you have to do a regrind on the one you have, if you decide a new grind?

[Milwaukee Midget]

Fordboy – Again, a million thanks.   I’ll probably be reading this until I fall asleep tonight.

The distance you were looking for, from the rear plate to the bearing plate is 3 11/16”.  I also received a piece of 1/2 " Lexan to make the flow bench adapter.  Still trying to find a piece of plastic tubing that will give me enough wall thickness to cut it 2.815 ID.  Might just go ahead and order up a sleeve.

Flattie, I’m not sure as to how I’ll attack this.  It’s a pretty big lobe for a cam this small, and it was made from a new billet, so the base circle hasn’t been monkeyed with.  The advice I’ve gotten from Vizard and Fordboy is that we’ll need to widen the lobe centers, but to what point, we’re not completely sure just yet.  I also want to scrutinize the cam very closely – given the nibbling I had on a few rocker adjusters, I want to be sure the thing isn’t gnarred up.  If it can be used, and can be ground into a profile that makes sense, that would be the least expensive option, but if it’s “as new”, I could probably recoup a lot of my outlay and start with a new billet.

That said, it’s pretty clear that we’ll have to take some more off of the block and head, so maybe a smaller base circle might work to the advantage in that I could get by with a standard length pushrod set.

I guess the jury is not yet out – but the case is still being argued.


Fordboy is going to “run the gauntlet” tomorrow and I’m always reminded of the movie, “Stripes”, where John Winger says,
 
“Like We zip in, we pick 'em up, we zip right out again.  We're not going to Moscow.  It's Czechoslovakia. It's like going into Wisconsin.”

[fordboy628]

Midget,

Various compression ratio scenarios starting with the current setup @ 10.48/1.   As discussed, the current spec is way too low for the camshaft spec, ie: intake closing point.   I didn't bother to calculate dynamic C/R for the start point, as I know from previous experience it will be way too low.

















The last two images (4 scenarios) are probably within the realm of what could possibly be achieved given the limitations of cylinder head deck strength, C/R requirement, flow (valve lift) requirement, head gasket clamp load Vs maximum cylinder pressure, etc, etc, etc.  There is a need to strike a balance between minimum chamber height (MAX C/R) Vs room for adequate net valve lift to allow cylinder head flow to match engine demand, AND PROVIDE ADEQUATE VALVE TO PISTON CLEARANCE!!

I question whether alloy rocker pillars are stiff enough to control head stud clamp load and/or provide the valve train stability necessary for this kind of maximum cram.   Loss of head gasket clamp load and the ensuing gasket failure, at the C/R needed, will probably torch out both the head & block, faster than the engine can be shut down.  The Payen gaskets I used on the XSP F/Jr's needed to have the block "O-ringed" at these C/R's.   Perhaps C&S can provide some guidance for the gasket you are using.

See you later this evening.  Still need to obtain the other pieces of info before you can start making informed decisions about the highway you will be taking.  As in all racing, the only thing for sure is that it will be a "Tollway".

Fordboy

[Rex Schimmer]

Chris,
Not wanting to re-read your build log I am just going to assume you have not talked to Dema Elgin regarding your cam shaft needs. Dema is a very sharp cam guy and has lots of experience with BMC motors. If you don't happen to have his number I can dig around and find it.

Rex

[Milwaukee Midget]

Chris,
Not wanting to re-read your build log I am just going to assume you have not talked to Dema Elgin regarding your cam shaft needs. Dema is a very sharp cam guy and has lots of experience with BMC motors. If you don't happen to have his number I can dig around and find it.

Rex

I believe Fordboy has been in contact with Dema regarding this -  - they've known each other a long time. 

Tonight we're going to crunch some more numbers, take a few more measurements, and make a plan. 

It's getting interesting here in Beerhaven . . .

[Buickguy3]

   Dema will be at Speed Week.
 Doug