Author Topic: Milwaukee Midget  (Read 3277424 times)

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Offline Elmo Rodge

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #675 on: October 22, 2011, 07:34:57 PM »

Seems "Spill Jet" might be an Aussie-ism?  I just want to be sure - After all, we're dealing with an Italian designed carburettor with a German name, produced in Spain, being installed on a British car in America by a guy with Czech heritage, asking an Australian for advice.
[/quote] To run on Tralfamador?  :-P Wayno

Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #676 on: October 22, 2011, 08:23:02 PM »
  :cheers:To run on Tralfamador?  :-P Wayno
Sometimes it DOES seem like an intergalactic zoo around here.
 :cheers:
"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

Offline Graham in Aus

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #677 on: October 22, 2011, 09:29:38 PM »
Yes, thats the one, as far as I know, the accelerator pump circuit 'squirts and atomises' fuel through both the pump jets and the excess 'spills' back into the float chamber via that jet. A smaller jet, or no jet (soldered up) puts all the fuel through the jets and into the motor!  :evil:

As the A series is a siamese port configration, one pump jet is serving two cylinders so needs more fuel (proportionally) than a one port one pot motor.

If you take the carb off, you can see the pump action with fuel in the float chamber, I'd check this is all functioning and no crap or blockage somewhere.

There are also progression holes drilled into the body to transition between idle and mains, some folk mess around with these and realy screw up the progression  :x

Do you know the history of the carb ("carby" Aussie! :-D)

Oh and I was a Pom, so add that to the mix....

WTF is this Tralfamador business? do i need some chemical stimulants  :-o

 :-D :cheers:

« Last Edit: October 22, 2011, 09:31:11 PM by Graham in Aus »

Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #678 on: October 22, 2011, 09:54:44 PM »
Thanks, Graham.  Right now, I've got nothing to lose (more on that later).

WTF is this Tralfamador business? do i need some chemical stimulants  :-o
:-D :cheers:

Gosh, how did this start?  Okay -

On the "Bad Joke Friday" forum, Goggs chimed in with a joke regarding hipsters and their condescending mannerisms.

I, of course, took on the voice of a "hipster", but actually coming across as more of a "geek", made an oblique, hipsteresque reference to a fictitious record company - "Tralfamadore Records".

Tralfamadore is the planet that Billy Pilgrim was pirated away to by the Tralfamadorians in "Slaughterhouse Five", a book no true hipster would ever admit to reading, despite the fact that they all have.

Wayno, of course, is cool WAY beyond the point of being a hipster (When asked, "Wayno, are you trying to be a hipster?", he replied, "No, hipsters are trying to be ME!").  Part of the Tralfamadorian perception is that time is not linear, and by having nonlinear time, Land Speed Racing options become more elastic.

So to your point, chemicals are involved.

 

 
"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

Offline Captthundarr

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #679 on: October 22, 2011, 10:50:31 PM »
OOOoooh Chemicals, now i understand :?
Live,Laugh, Love /  Jack Scratch Racing /ECTA   
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Offline Freud

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #680 on: October 22, 2011, 10:58:03 PM »
Thunder.......you are too young to understand.

Midget, born in your year, has accelerated his aging process.

You are dealing with pros when you replied, but they will mull your response.

It makes them feel superior and surprised to still be alive.

When they nod their head up and down, smirk and remain silent......they figure you have reached their level.

Don't wait for a verbal response.

FREUD
« Last Edit: October 22, 2011, 11:00:35 PM by Freud »
Since '63

Offline Elmo Rodge

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #681 on: October 22, 2011, 11:05:45 PM »
And to qoute Mose Allison
"Well go ahead and analyze me
I bet you that you can't surprise me."
 :cheers: Wayno

Offline Captthundarr

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #682 on: October 22, 2011, 11:36:07 PM »
 :evil: :cheers: :-D now  back to the carb issue!
« Last Edit: October 22, 2011, 11:39:36 PM by Captthundarr »
Live,Laugh, Love /  Jack Scratch Racing /ECTA   
Amy Hartman-Driver, Frank Hartman-everthing else.
C/GALT 137.65 Ohio Mile check that 144.12 2013, AA/GALT 159.34 Ohio Mile 2014. B/GALT 180.577 RECORD 6/15

Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #683 on: October 23, 2011, 02:37:30 PM »
:evil: :cheers: :-D now  back to the carb issue!

Agreed.  Frank, looking forward to meeting you next weekend.

Not how I had planned the weekend to go, but I was able to hopefully resolve a few issues, revealed a few problems - without making a pass.


Friday night after work, Tim Curtis came over.  We were working through this dead spot issue in the carb when I went to throw the ignition switch, and it didn’t make that firm, reassuring “click” it had always made before.  Indeed, it felt like a swizzle stick stuck in an olive submerged in a shot glass of mayonnaise.
 


I’ve played in bands for years, and have a small mountain of inoperable amps and PA equipment scattered around.  Seeing as Tim’s chops are in rebuilding and repairing vintage audio gear, I sent him to work on removing a switch from an old tube type Fender PA head I had stashed under a pile of defunct Macintosh computers.




10 amps – no waiting.  So now I’ve got XLR microphone cable ends on my crank trigger and a standby switch from an amplifier installed in a race car.  I just wish the car was as easy to tune as a Telecaster.

We tried a few idle mixture adjustments and it was still acting like it had some sort of a vac leak going on – idle, race, idle, die.  Propane didn’t reveal anything at the time, it was 10:00 PM, and we were making no headway.  I still needed to pack some tools and prep a few things for Saturday.  We took all of our adjustments back to the initial settings and called it quits.

Loaded up the trailer Saturday, and Kate and I took off to Great Lakes Dragaway.  Stopped at a truck stop and threw the trailer on the scales.  It had been nagging me a bit – Wisconsin law says trailers less than 3000 lb’s GVW don’t need plates.  It’s a single axle trailer, and I knew the Midget didn’t weigh a lot, but I was pleased when I got the printout showing the whole rig coming in at 2360.  The trailer I took to Bonneville last year weighed more than that empty.  For interstate travel, it’s at best quasi-legal, but at least I’ve got documentable proof of the weight.  Pulls pretty nice, and I still got 18+ mpg round trip, which is about 50% better than what the U-Haul gave me last year.



Got to the track, set up a pit, asked all the newbie questions and got the usual responses - “down under the Sunoco sign”“that’s the tree that’s on the map”“you don’t race it on the trailer, why would we inspect it on the trailer?”  Passed a tech inspection - “Your seat belts are less than 2 years old" (nodding approval)  – “You can use my pen when that guy’s done with it”. 

Cranked it up, took it to the staging lane . . .



. . . and the fire went out. 




This is why I came here before dragging it to North Carolina – to work out the bugs.  The indicator lights on the ICM are indicating no sensor. 

I rolled it back to the pits - and at this point, I’ve just got to add that Kate looks absolutely splendid in the driver’s seat of this thing, being lovingly pushed around the paddock by her doting husband.

I hooked up the laptop, and it’s indicating no ignition issues.  I crank it, it starts right up.  Okay, I just rebooted a 40 year old car. 

But while it’s running, I checked the laptop and noticed that the rev limiter had gone back to a previous default mode.  Checked the connections, plug and unplug, reprogram the curve and limiter.  Seems that a virtual digital Lucas virus had wormed its way into the RAM chip.  A reprogram took care of it, but I hope this doesn’t become a recurring issue.



By this time, it was late into the dial ins, and they announced that the racing was going to start early, because in the words of the PA announcer, and this is over the public address system, “The sooner we can get done, the sooner we can get out of here”.  And I’m thinking this was originally on their schedule as a tune and test day – thanks for taking my money.

I made one more attempt to get it in line, but before I got to staging I could tell I had no throttle response.  Most of the folks were making their second passes for a dial in, so I turned out and headed over to the back of the paddock where they conduct their snowmobile drag racing events.  I’m on grass, I try a holeshot, and it bogs.  This is part of the testing, I paid for the privilege, and while I don’t want to come off as a dick, they can stick to their schedule or re-sod their lawn.

Before I left, I pulled and inspected the plugs – 1 and 4 were blackened up a bit, but 2 and 3 were correct, and possibly a little grey.  The intake ports are shared between 1-2, and 3-4.  That’s one I need to ponder a bit – why the far ends would read rich on separate runners, while their shared counterparts are okay.  Better scavenging on the 2-3 exhaust?  I also stuck the Colortune in and saw orange on the #1 cylinder at a fast idle.  It was tough to read, so I decided to retry that check in the shade of my garage.

Got home, and saw Graham’s post regarding the bleed back from the accelerator pump.  After confirming the part, I removed the “carby” and soldered up the jet. 



While the carb was out, I noticed that one of the locking screws that hold the aux venturi in place was loose, and that I could blow air right into the venturi with the screw in place.  Propane didn’t catch it, but I did – clearly a vacuum leak.

I’ll be out monkeying with this repaired setup this afternoon.  I’m at the point that if I can just get some throttle response, I think I’ll be alright, and I’ll take it to North Carolina.  I’ve already paid, we’re going anyway, and with the lighter trailer, it’s not going to kill me on gas. 

Keeping the expectations low and looking forward to a fun weekend.
"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

Offline 38flattie

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #684 on: October 23, 2011, 02:53:20 PM »
looks like the weekend paid off, even if you didn't get to run.

You're one step closer to getting the carb dialed in! :cheers:
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Offline Captthundarr

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #685 on: October 23, 2011, 03:59:24 PM »
Although you didn't get to make a pass it sems to have been a fruitfull weekend. Have a safe ride south. see you this weekend.

Frank.
Live,Laugh, Love /  Jack Scratch Racing /ECTA   
Amy Hartman-Driver, Frank Hartman-everthing else.
C/GALT 137.65 Ohio Mile check that 144.12 2013, AA/GALT 159.34 Ohio Mile 2014. B/GALT 180.577 RECORD 6/15

Offline Peter Jack

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #686 on: October 23, 2011, 08:53:15 PM »
Just to save you one more issue, it seems I remember you saying you'd pulled the carb down tight to preclude any problems. I should have said something at the time but didn't. I don't think it has anything to do with your present problem but when you do get things running I'll almost guarantee there will be issues. I've been through this and the reason for the sloppy feeling mounting is that it stops harmonics going to the carb which affect the fuel flow within the carb. Hope things get cleared up.

Pete

Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #687 on: October 23, 2011, 09:26:46 PM »
Just to save you one more issue, it seems I remember you saying you'd pulled the carb down tight to preclude any problems. I should have said something at the time but didn't. I don't think it has anything to do with your present problem but when you do get things running I'll almost guarantee there will be issues. I've been through this and the reason for the sloppy feeling mounting is that it stops harmonics going to the carb which affect the fuel flow within the carb. Hope things get cleared up.

Pete

In complete agreement, and kept the o-ring/spring arrangement intact this time, and checked it with propane to be sure I had no leak going on.

PJ, you've got my back, and I'm grateful.

I'm getting a better shot out of the accelerator pump, and I've lost some initial bog, but another clandestine trip up and down the ally indicates I've still got no acceleration under load.

I'm zeroing in on the timing right now.  Anybody out there have any insight with the Win TEC4 XDI-2 software?  I suspect I might not be perfectly lined up with my crank trigger, and I'm hoping to account for it through programming rather than pulling the radiator and trying to read my timing marks - yeah, that wasn't so bright, marking the timing cover where it's tough to see.

About an hour ago, as an experiment, and to determine if I'm even in the ballpark, I punched up an initial mechanical offset timing setting of -10 degrees advance.  It shouldn't even idle at that, yet it does, and actually, not too badly.  I suspect I might be off a tooth on the crank trigger, which would lead to the following -

1 - in a zero or positive position, I'm overadvanced
2 - as I accelerate (or attempt to) the knock sensor kicks in and pulls my timing back
3 - and it might explain the high idle - completely closed and 3000 rpm?  That's not right.
4 - and I could be chasing my tail

Here's what I'd like to know, if anybody has ever worked with the Electromotive stuff.
 
Where should I be setting my knock sensor settings?  It's a GM sensor, and a datalog indicated that it was kicking in occasionally at a fast idle with no load.  If that's the case, it would not surprise me to discover that the timing was getting kicked back everytime I slipped the clutch.

The curve is 14 to 36, all in by about 3300, but if the initial timing is off, I might actually be bumping against the knock retard.

Help?
"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

Offline Graham in Aus

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #688 on: October 24, 2011, 03:41:25 AM »
I'm getting a better shot out of the accelerator pump, and I've lost some initial bog, but another clandestine trip up and down the ally indicates I've still got no acceleration under load.
Help?

All sounds good theory, if it does turn ou to be timing, you can always redrill the solder in the spill jet!

In reality, the accelerator pump is just that, and will make no difference a WOT.

Keep fighting it Chris! Sorry I can't help you with all that software stuff..... Megajolt have a forum don't they?

http://www.autosportlabs.org/   :-D

Offline grumm441

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Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #689 on: October 24, 2011, 08:49:22 AM »
Hey Chris
Why don't you reset the retard to zero° on the knock sensor so as it does nothing but record the event
I did it with spigot of sunshine motor on the dyno.
It didn't fix the problem, but it ruled out the knock sensor.
My only other suggestion would be to put the distributor back in it and see how it runs
If it fixes it, you know it's in the ignition system, if it doesn't, you know it's not
G
« Last Edit: October 24, 2011, 08:51:21 AM by grumm441 »
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