Milwaukee Midget

[salt27]

For those who were wondering how loud the Midget is . . .

Having heard it in person, I will say it does sound somewhat perturbed. (British understatement) 

 Don

[fordboy628]

For those who were wondering how loud the Midget is . . .

Any volunteers to stay in the dyno cell during a pull?
 
F/B

P.S. Tell the chef it has enough salt, still needs more rake though . . . . . . . . . . . .

[SPARKY]

Sum, they have know for a good while:  at B'ville dirty low powered cars usually go faster in the heat of the afternoon than during return runs in the morning---Clean cars go faster with the extra HP in the morning its the exponential of drag--- thingie

[wisdonm]

I saw a wind tunnel test for a production LSR car and one of the things that increased drag was rake. Level was better, and this was a relatively square cut car.

[fordboy628]

I saw a wind tunnel test for a production LSR car and one of the things that increased drag was rake. Level was better, and this was a relatively square cut car.

Don,

I wonder if that car had a front air dam?   What sort of ground clearance did it have?

Given the "rounded" underpan below the grille on the "MM", a side photo of the little beastie @ speed would go a long way toward determining how much lift it has in front @ 118+ mph.   Air underneath this car, has got to be a poor aero situation.    IMHO.

Weekend Line:
Bengals +3 Vs Bears (in Chitown)
Packers +5 Vs 49ers (in S/F)

Now every game is for real . . . . . . .
 
Bearboy (probably soon to be "Broken-Hearted Bearboy . . . . . .     ah well, just got a case Sam Adams Oktoberfest, just in case, you know . . . . . . . . . .  )

[Milwaukee Midget]

I saw a wind tunnel test for a production LSR car and one of the things that increased drag was rake. Level was better, and this was a relatively square cut car.

Examples are all over the map.

I would rather leave it level and just slam the whole thing.

But I talked with Pat Kinne last February about the MG/Rover that ran in 2004. 

http://www.google.com/search?q=mg+ztt+estate&tbm=isch&tbs=simg:CAQSXAm-D4714lYvmhpICxCwjKcIGjYKNAgBEg6OB6UHoAetB6wHnASCBBog5VVGm_1x1l3bUdbO1rvnnveeVeUqai7DYiodrTUn3hLgMCxCOrv4IGgAMIbNhDIr4tdfA&sa=X&ei=0UUnUovyL8fX2QWBjIHgCQ&ved=0CCcQwg4oAA&biw=1185&bih=580

It was essentially a shooting brake style wagon.  They took notice of the salt pattern being kicked up behind the front wheels, dropped the front end ~ 2", and picked up 2mph.

Is that the solution?  For him it was, but part of the equation that wasn't answered was if they had dropped the whole thing.

What needs to happen is I need to prevent air from getting under it without the aid of a chin spoiler, which the class doesn't permit for me.

So I'm thinking a very wide, deep oil pan, contoured in the front and extending to just flush with the valance . . .   

[Elmo Rodge]

I love it.  Wayno

[dw230]

What does the first sentence of rule 4.CC on page 46 state?

DW

[Milwaukee Midget]

 

"Any device which has the apparent purpose of directing, limiting, or controlling air flow around or within
the car and is not a part of the original body will be considered as streamlining."

What if it appears to be a big, flat faced oil pan with a large, forward facing cooling surface?

 
 
See, Dan - this is what happens when you start to get close . . .

[jacksoni]

What does the first sentence of rule 4.CC on page 46 state?

DW

Of course since it is likely no one has ever thought of this (the oil pan thing) and the rule really was written for "body" modifications you might have gotten away with it..... But now the cat is out of the bag with the impound guy...  Besides rule says around or within the car, not under-picking nits here (oops- inspector says "my interpretation is... you lose)

Along line of some of the prior posts. Rake "generally" is helpful compared to a flat stance. But you can over do it so that not only you don't get the Drag improvement but the frontal area increases, a double negative whammy. Wind tunnel or lot of testing to prove what is best for you. I have been involved with a /GMS car (Bonneville Bugeye- see build thread) on which we do have wind tunnel testing. We clearly improved the drag numbers with a bit of rake.

Keeping as much air from under the car (irregular, poor flow) usually is good for lots of reasons, but as an air dam for a "50's car is not likely a factory item (understatement there), lowering the nose/whole car is about all you can do.

Taping seams, the grill, radiator etc are not legal as has been pointed out. However, sealing the hood well to keep the flow down and out rather than through big cracks above can be helpful.

Cold air to the engine of course can help, if can be done without an aero penalty. At least on some cars a small hood scoop (for cold air- ram effect is whole different issue and topic, covered here elsewhere at length- may have very little drag penalty. At least as shown in a tunnel on a well known Camaro.  Lot of talk about the hot vs cold performance above. My car with efi (so theoretically compensating for temps and density altitude mixture wise) as stated previously ran faster late in heat of the day than early in am. And it was among the best aero shapes out there (mid '80's trans am). Again this supports the drag vs HP argument about density that has been discussed above.

See also the thread on rake in the aerodynamics section:  http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,12933.0.html

[fordboy628]

"Any device which has the apparent purpose of directing, limiting, or controlling air flow around or within
the car and is not a part of the original body will be considered as streamlining."

What if it appears to be a big, flat faced oil pan with a large, forward facing cooling surface?

 
 
See, Dan - this is what happens when you start to get close . . .

Midget,

THIS: is why we haven't been able to solve those aerodynamic problems . . . . . . . . . . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44o9eEASaa4

Da**!!!  Being from "Beerhaven" you shoulda thoughta this!!!!
 
Soon to be "Creativeboy"

P.S.  (I'm ingesting a Sam Adams Oktoberfest as I type away . . . . . . .   & I feel smarter already. . . . . . . . .)

[Milwaukee Midget]

Midget,

THIS: is why we haven't been able to solve those aerodynamic problems . . . . . . . . . . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44o9eEASaa4

Da**!!!  Being from "Beerhaven" you shoulda thoughta this!!!!
 
Soon to be "Creativeboy"

P.S.  (I'm ingesting a Sam Adams Oktoberfest as I type away . . . . . . .   & I feel smarter already. . . . . . . . .)

Okay, Mark, let's reel this theory back in a bit, I'll grab the net, and we'll get this lunker in the boat. 

I want to make sure I've got this right.

I have been what you have described as a student with potential, but clearly, somewhere in my notes, I've either jotted something down wrong, or misunderstood a concept.

BMEP

Now I wrote down, Brake Mean Effective Pressure.

Was that actually supposed to be Beer Might Effectively Prevail?

[fordboy628]

Midget,

THIS: is why we haven't been able to solve those aerodynamic problems . . . . . . . . . . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44o9eEASaa4

Da**!!!  Being from "Beerhaven" you shoulda thoughta this!!!!
 
Soon to be "Creativeboy"

P.S.  (I'm ingesting a Sam Adams Oktoberfest as I type away . . . . . . .   & I feel smarter already. . . . . . . . .)

Okay, Mark, let's reel this theory back in a bit, I'll grab the net, and we'll get this lunker in the boat.  

I want to make sure I've got this right.

I have been what you have described as a student with potential, but clearly, somewhere in my notes, I've either jotted something down wrong, or misunderstood a concept.

BMEP

Now I wrote down, Brake Mean Effective Pressure.

Was that actually supposed to be Beer Might Effectively Prevail?

Grasshopper,

Why . . . . . . . . . .  Yes,            Yes it was . . . . . . . . . .

BUT, remember also Grasshopper:

"One must learn to peer into the endless depths of one's own beverage container, to discern the meaning of life.   Er, racing.   Er, refill time.   Whatever . . . . . ."

"May tranquility and  fill your days . . . "
Master Po . . . . . . (now reincarnated as: Kung Fu Panda!!!!!!!!)

[Ron Gibson]

Chris
Sorry this is off "beer" topic. I can't handle dark, strong beer. Sometimes I can't handle weak, pale beer.

Anyway, how about lowering the whole car and putting air shocks on the rear. that way you experiment with different angles of attack without much effort.

Ron

[Milwaukee Midget]

Chris
Sorry this is off "beer" topic. I can't handle dark, strong beer. Sometimes I can't handle weak, pale beer.

Anyway, how about lowering the whole car and putting air shocks on the rear. that way you experiment with different angles of attack without much effort.

Ron

This thread caters to all tastes and constitutions.  Even Fordboy drinks Dr. Pepper, provided it's before 9:00 in the morning - but keep it under your hat - he has a reputation to uphold.

It was good meeting you at Speedweek!

I spent some time last night eying up the situation.  Air shocks are a possibility, but MGs have lever shocks in both the front and the back, and it would require a re-engineering of the rear shock attachment points.  It is doable, but I'm looking into Airlift coil replacements for the front, and simply removing the spacer plates which I already have under the rear spring perch.  I would then do all of my ride height adjustment on the front, and I'd be able to raise it up to get it on the trailer without hanging up on the exhaust.