M/C minimums again.

[aswracing]

You're ducking the issue.

[wheelspin]

Scott,
Congratulations on 200mph slip #189.Dont forget to change you signature!
 The example you used is an acceleration run, not a top speed run. I am painfully aware that a larger rider punches a bigger hole in the atmosphere ( I am 6ft 1in 225 lb) and creates more drag, therefore reducing terminal velocity. If I am not mistaken, with the exception of rolling resistance, if the CDa (drag) is the same on a given vehicle, and has the same power, it will go the same top speed regardless of the weight of the pilot. Maybe I should find a hunchback horse jockey to ride it . Best of both worlds.
My statements were in response to other posts and shouldnt be taken literally. It was a theoretical question to try and prove a point and I obviously did a poor job in expressing myself. I am trying to learn as much as I can before I go to the world finals so any words of wisdon are appreciated.
Nathan

[wheelspin]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
wheelspin wrote:
AWS,
How about just buying a current Moto GP 500cc bike. 230hp very efficient aerodynamically etc. Really easy to get into the 200 club if you have the funding.....You are missing my point


Anyway, current MotoGP bikes are 990 cc.
_________________
 
Scott .. My bad, I was thinking of the old 500cc 2 stroke  GP Bikes. They are pretty bad Aerodynamically at Bonneville but are highly developed for road racing and would certainly be superior in any crosswind condition than any partial streamliner. Once again my point was mistaken. Maybe I should shut up and listen to everybody else make a jackass of themselves. AWS is certainly working hard at it  

[wheelspin]

Maybe because it is my first time, and I diddnt realize how mioptic the salt makes people,I expressed an opinion about an alternate form of racing. Shame on me

I swear it will never happen again

until tomorrow

[wheelspin]

Scott,
I will give you my data files any time you want ( after I break your record of course)
Nathan

[MadDuck]

Scott,

Thanks for the kind words about Davey.  He died at Duquoin in 1999.  The bike he died on holds the M class records.  The bike he and his father raced for three years and got him his first podium at DelMar has the A class record.  His father Don was the rider for all the 750 passes.

My main point, I guess, was that I thought the Bonneville 200mph club was to honor significant achievement.  The minimums appear to have failed twice this year.  The first was Susan, the other was the williams streamliner which broke the 50 year old NSU record.  You can debate numbers and statistics all you want but a lot of people will always believe those two achievements are significant and should have gotten into the club.  My question still remains, are the minimums really accomplishing the goals for which they exist???

[MadDuck]

Joea,

Sorry for my lack of clarity.

your MPS - F Kawasaki is the one I believe you referenced  223 in 01. as to setting the minimum in Susans class.

The Team Amo Kawasaki record holder in MPS-BF is in 03 at 216.  7mph slower.

In 04 the bike is now in MPS=BG  at 240.

 Math and logic now tell me that for the common denominator of same team with about the same expertise shows that blowers slow fuel bikes and that gas makes a faster blower bike.  None of which I believe having raced all sorts of configuration altho hillcliming primarily.  But the records are sitting there.

[joea]

that bike ran BF this year at 246...........now how does
that fit into your logic....?


the 1000 mps f record is over 221........
the 1000 aps f record is over 215......

and your logic says the 1350 f minimum should
be under 215....if your a girl............

[bak189]

Scott, we have all decided that you are a wonderfull person.
What is the SIDECAR minimum???

[Pat Kinne / Salt201]

If the Arrows Team set a certified record then the rider is a member of the Red Hat brigade.  I left the Salt on Thursday morning and have no information at this time on at Salt inductions after that time. Dan Warner was and is there and if a record was set then it will be taken care of. If it got overlooked due to Dans work load then we will make amends ASAP. -

As to the BUB Meet - Scott has done a great job of explaining the Bonneville 200 MPH Clubs position on all points - both SCTA and BUB - the questons asked were answered.  Again, Scott and Larry will be attending the BUB meet and checking on there methods of operation as to Technical inspections and certifications.  The meets proper FIM records that are certified will meet the existing Club by-laws and be accepted as membership eligible.  

You will never hear me belittle anyones past accomplishments, my point was that to be relevant to todays LSR world you need to be active and on site - not simply reading other peoples comments and taking them as fact. Scott and Joe Amo have answered every question that has been asked and justified their reasons with facts - Once again, if there is an issue that you feel needs addressing then put it in writing and send it to the office with your reasoning - you will be listened to.  Pat Kinne

[k.h.]

Today you can buy a bike and finance it that will go 200. Times change.

  In some ways, 200 mph ain't what it used to be.  For many people it still is.  

It looks like the BUB Meet will continue to be a yearly event.  The world is still short of bureacracies.  How about approaching the AMA to charter their own 200 mph LSR club for bikes, which will include all 200 mph acheivements (even if they are set at other venues like Speedweek,
WOS, Goliad, Maxton, etc.) as long as the inducted racer is an AMA member.  Give em something else to add to the banquet conversation, sell more memberships and paraphenalia.

[Courtney]

>>>>The 200 Club Motorcycle Minimum Committee spends a LOT of time establishing minumums for ALL motorcycle classes, and not just the few that you seem to be interested in.

I confess less fluency than some but it sure looks like the "spends a lot of time" is the root of the problem.

If the metric, and basis for membership, is 200 MPH, it should take nearly no time.

It appears, and again I'm trying to listen and learn, that perhaps the club has just been poorly named and leads those who aren't intimately involved to the false assumption that somehow going 200MPH is somehow related.

[k.h.]

Okay, 200 mph is always going to be 200 mph.  As was pointed out several years ago, if memory serves right, minimums came into being partially in response to one's ability to "rent a ride" for 2 Club membership.  How watered down does the accomplishment become if anyone can step off the bus, meet a safety criteria, toss dollars toward a "vendor" and gain membership?  

Further, one would expect certain motorcycle engines to produce higher speeds than same classification engines of lesser displacement.  Whilst hitting 200++mph with a 1350cc motor is no small feat, should the same classification of motorcycle with a 1000cc motor hold a higher record, then would membership for the 1350 rider be a "giveaway?"  

LSR is perhaps the most representative of individual accomplishments of all motorsports, whether it is a single person's low dollar or factory team high-dollar endeavor.  Clearly there is a tangible value to 2 Club membership in recognition of what one did.  It appears that most interested parties further understand the intangible value of going over 200 and still not beating an existing record as a participant in "competition on a level playing field."

Then again, speaking of level playing fields, I'm still dissappointed over the OEM/aftermarket pushrod cases debacle that rather graphically explained where the bears poop in the buckwheat on the rules committtee.

[Rick Byrnes]

If the Arrows Team set a certified record then the rider is a member of the Red Hat brigade.

Pat
The rider of Arrow bike liner (Gary Hensley) is already a member of the 200 MPH club having done that in 2004 with a naturally aspirated engine in the same vehicle..
Their accomplishments this year with a little motor are outstanding.  It is a shame the last mile speed had to be disallowed but I'm pretty sure that Gary even says he wasn't going 270 MPH.  250 yes but
Oh whatever.....
They are a bunch of happy racers.

Rick

[aswracing]

As to the BUB Meet - Scott has done a great job of explaining the Bonneville 200 MPH Clubs position on all points - both SCTA and BUB - the questons asked were answered.  

The question was WHY does the 2 club not recognize BUB meet AMA records. The answer is because it's not in the by-laws. The question remains: WHY? It hasn't been answered.

Again, Scott and Larry will be attending the BUB meet and checking on there methods of operation as to Technical inspections and certifications.  The meets proper FIM records that are certified will meet the existing Club by-laws and be accepted as membership eligible.

So the answer is maybe someday? This meet is in it's third year. Now you're going to consider it? For inclusion when? Why wasn't it done the first year? What's the criteria? Do you see how this creates a bad appearance for the 2 club? Like maybe they're trying to keep people out?

You will never hear me belittle anyones past accomplishments, my point was that to be relevant to todays LSR world you need to be active and on site - not simply reading other peoples comments and taking them as fact.

And what makes you think we're not active? Because we didn't attend Speedweek? Both of you brought that up, I can only conclude that it's your main criteria.

So if I go to Bub's, WOS, and World Finals, but not Speedweek, does my opinion still not count? Or count less? That's a direct question, it deserves a direct answer.

I remember very clearly when Don Vesco went 458 at World Finals a few years back. Would his opinion not count because he didn't do it at Speedweek? Why is a person less credible if they choose to go to other events instead? Not all of us like the long lines, the huge pits, or the heat. We prefer a smaller more intimate event. Are we any less of a racer because of that?

Generally when someone questions the credibility of the other person, they're doing it because they can't answer the question. The problem is that it comes across as arrogance, which is a battle you're already fighting by simply imposing minimums. Like I said twice now, it would be much more constructive to simply address the issues than question the credibility of those people raising them. By implying we're not qualified to ask the question, you come across as a pompous ass, which I'm sure you're not. This medium has a way of making us all look like pompous asses, myself included.

Scott and Joe Amo have answered every question that has been asked and justified their reasons with facts

Bullshit. See my above repeated questions that went unanswered, by Scott's own admission. I'm more than happy to give him more time, though.

you will be listened to.  Pat Kinne

Even without attending Speedweek?