M/C minimums again.

[Snail]

What saddens me is the apparent schism that is growing between the car guys and the bike guys.

When I frist started LSR I felt welcomed, as the the sport was seeking new blood and hoping to keep the salt available from the BLM by increased activity.

Perhaps a split is inevitable, and the success of the Bub event for motorcycles is a good barometer for that.

Just as the sixties was the golden age of muscle cars, the '00's is the golden age of motorcycles.  Rather than be resentfull, share the magic of todays technology, and aprreciate what we do.

I believe the red hat club should be open to anyone that goes over 200 mph and breaks an existing record.

[Courtney]

>>>>Why does the 2 club not recognize records set at the Bub meet?

So in order to be eligible for the "200 MPH Club", you have to go more, by some arbitrary amount, than 200MPH AND you have to do it at a certain event?

If the bar got rasied above 200MPH to effectively "dock" folks availing themselves to updated technology, wouldn't it also make sense to retroactively "adjust" the records of those who used "technology well ahead of it's time", such as streamlining?

Once something like this becomes subjective.....the can's not only open, the worms are squirming.

200MPH is 200MPH

Shame of this is that by implementing the minimums and excluding events like Bubs, it threatens to make membership in the club meaningless.

[Courtney]

Rich:

It's sounding like you are right.

EEOC?.....let me guess...California?

 

[Pat Kinne / Salt201]

As has been posted on this site MANY times - the Bonneville 200 MPH Club motorcycle minimums were created at the request of motorcycle racers themselves - they were created to be attainable - not exclusionary - the time and effort to create these minimums was the work of expierenced men who know what is possible.  As Club Board laison with our Motorcycle Committee (Scott Guthrie, Larry Forstall, Jason McVicar) I have seen the give and take involved in producing these minimums.  In the past Jonathan Amo and his brother Joe have been extremly helpful in setting and/or adjusting these numbers. If for one second you dispute the talent and dedication to Land Speed Racing that these men have demonstrated over the years, you are not paying attention. These speeds are  changable - if you can show just cause let the Club guys know.
 I note on a prior post someone thinks the club is in the business of excluding women from entry - I suggest you speak with Tanis Hammond amoung others to get their opinion.
In looking over the postings - how many of the posters were at Speed Week actually racing something?? I know Scott Guthrie, and Jason were there - so was Joe Amo (fast) and Jonathan was both racing and writing this past week. Larry Forstall will be at BUB racing - how about the critics?
Yes, I was there as well, it just took four wheels to go as fast as Joe. -
Pat Kinne, 2 Club Board of Directors

[aswracing]

In looking over the postings - how many of the posters were at Speed Week actually racing something?? I know Scott Guthrie, and Jason were there - so was Joe Amo (fast) and Jonathan was both racing and writing this past week. Larry Forstall will be at BUB racing - how about the critics?
Yes, I was there as well, it just took four wheels to go as fast as Joe. -
Pat Kinne, 2 Club Board of Directors

I didn't realize our opinions only count if we attend Speedweek. Thanks for clearing that up.

When you say things like that, you're reinforcing the perception.

[jimmy six]

Mike F. and Scott G have made very good points. Many hours have gone into the setting of these minimums,and as a 2 Club Board member I would listen to reasons to change. But just not on this site. In writing at one of the 2 Club board meetings

There is a 3 Club chapter of the 2 Club, that's how it works.

Before becoming a member in 2003 I only listened and read the minimums in the books put out by the Club. Now we also have the net. I was able gain membership by entering in a class which originally did not have a minimum, save the 200, because no one thought it was either attainable or it didn't matter. Since the record is now 210 and I know I could go faster. Should the record have been set at 225? You tell me...

First and foremost attaining membership should be, a challenge, reasonable, and earn respect from your peers. There are 2 open records (AA & B) in Blown Gas Streamliner with minimums over 300. If I were to set a record in one of those 2 classes at 201 and get in the club I would be embarrassed and know I didn't earn any-ones respect. In fact if I was running those classes I wouldn't even go to impound until I ran in the 270's.  "G" is now over 350.

All these even out in the long run...With technology all the records today will be higher in the future. The only problem I see is what happened to the HHR...Should we be really going that fast with that style body?

As Scott so eloquently pointed out at this years 2-Club Banquet (which can be attended by anyone) Since it's conception in 1953 approximately 460 people have entered the club while over 600 have climbed Mount Everest... Proving it's easier to climb the highest mountain on Earth than it is to get a red or blue "hat"....J.D.

[MadDuck]

JD,

I am probably all messed up in this, but as I read the Bonneville 200mph club records they list the minimums only for classes without a record.  Or have I missed something???

The motorcycle minimums seem to have been applied to all classes, including those with records well above 200mph.  Why the difference??


Car guys getting in:    old 158     new 204
                                old 209.2   new 209.9
                                old 203      new  206
Not IN
Susan Robertson    old 199     new 205


Again why have the bikes such a wildly different protocol for membership??  

I seem to have fallen into a rut here but I firmly believe in one standard applied fairly over time.  Health problem kept me from speedweek this year, I am team manager for Davey Camlin #27 and we've been there and done that too.  We will never see 200 mph unless don builds that streamliner he's been talking about.

[Pat Kinne / Salt201]

My point above re: actually participating and racing a vehicle is far different than standing back and taking pot shots at the hard work and time spent by real racers.  To be called a Racer is the highest compliment that you can be given.  That does seem to exclude some very nice people but I will take a Racers opionion far quicker than a I will a man standing back with his arms crossed waiting for an oportunity to sharpshoot. LSR racing has changed in the past few years and I think a current participant has a better prospective than someone that has not been there for a number of years.  As I wrote above, and J.D. mentioned if you think that a minimum is wrong write the Club and let us know your justifications for a change - it can and has been done.


Car Class minimums have been in place for years, if you would like a copy of the Bonneville 200 MPH Club Records and Minimums booklet call Kathy at the Club office. Better yet go to our web site:                            www.bonneville200mph.org
 
As to not including the BUB meet - If you have been following the Landracing Web Site for the past few months this topic has also been covered.   The bylaws of the Bonneville 200 MPH Club state that a record set at the Bonneville Salt Flats AND certified by the SCTA/BNI, USFRA, FIA or FIM  that is above 200 MPH OR published Club Minimums will be eligible for Club Membership.  This years Bub meet will be attended by Scott Guthrie and Larry Forstall with the intention of potential inclusion into the mixin 2007.  FIM Certified  Records will be accepted if above the postings available on the 2 Club web site.

Pat Kinne

[aswracing]

Please clarify. How many meets do Snail, Fireman Jim, Madduck, Court, and I have to attend or records do we have to set or be involved with setting before our opinions are worthy of your consideration? And attendance at Speedweek is apparently mandatory?

In my apparently unworthy opinion, it would be infinitely more constructive if you addressed the issues raised rather than attack the credibility of those raising them.

Liek I said, you're confirming the perception that the minimums create.

[joea]

Mad duck..............your quote : Joe,

It seems that team amo bike added a blower and two years of experience and managed to slow the bike by 7mph, Logic would tell me that the blower should have gone in the mid 230's."""""


is puzzling to me................

that bike added a blower and went 25 mph faster.....at over 246........

so...........your "logic"  is OFF a bit................

not to worry guys and gals................

ANYONE WHO GOES OVER 200 MPH "IS" IN THE 200 MPH
CLUB......................make all the shirts you want about it, it is your club............

JUST NOT IN THE "BONNEVILLE" 200 MPH CLUB



THERE IS A BIG DISTINCTION.......!!!!!!!!!!!............

DO YOU REALLY FEEL THAT A TOP FUEL ENGINE IN A STREAMLINER
THAT CAN IDLE AT 200 MPH SHOULD  BE GIVEN ALL THE ACCOLADES
AND RESPECT WITH REGARD TO "ACHIEVEMENT" THAN A PERSON
WHO RUNS A 750CC OPEN BIKE  OVER 200.......?

I dont proclaim that the system is perfect.............but the people
involved in both the SCTA/BNI/Bonn. Two club...........have the
BEST intentions possible............and largely the best people I
have ever met and been around...............

listen to Pat K. and others.........its NOT a closed book...........

it IS open........and fluid........

[aswracing]

DO YOU REALLY FEEL THAT A TOP FUEL ENGINE IN A STREAMLINER
THAT CAN IDLE AT 200 MPH SHOULD BE GIVEN ALL THE ACCOLADES
AND RESPECT WITH REGARD TO "ACHIEVEMENT" THAN A PERSON
WHO RUNS A 750CC OPEN BIKE OVER 200.......?

Is it any less fair than making the MPS-PF number 220 when the APS-PF minimum is 214 as set by  Dan Kinsey? Does that make any sense to you?

but the people
involved in both the SCTA/BNI/Bonn. Two club...........have the
BEST intentions possible............and largely the best people I
have ever met and been around

Well, y'know, I try my damndest to be careful with perceptions of people I only know through this medium. It can be damned easy to misread people. So I try to give the benefit of the doubt. Tell you what though, when someone attacks the credibility of people he doesn't know, rather than address an issue, it makes it hard to keep an open mind. I'm still trying though.

it IS open........and fluid........

To who? Remember, we didn't go to Speedweek. Our opinion doesn't count.

[joea]

your expertise IS just what Pat and others respect....!!

they dont want it to tough...............nor to easy.........

and history shows that  the DO listen and respond to
racers.........

Joe

[bak189]

Hey, hey, hey I have been going to Bonneville for over 35 years.....we hold 4 sidecar records.....does my input count???
By the way what is the minimum for a SIDECAR over 200mph??

[bak189]

Scott, we are saving our racing for the BUB Meet

P.S. 1088 times over 50mph

[aswracing]

your expertise IS just what Pat and others respect....!!

Thanks, Joe, but he said just the opposite.

I'll be the first to admit that the things I've accomplished pale in comparison to many others, you among them. So he's correct in that regard.

My appologies for not getting to this sooner, since I was actually at Bonneville, going (finally) 200 MPH, racing and setting records,
instead of sitting in front of the computer. TALKING about racing......

Thanks, Scott, but it's already been explained to us how our opinions don't matter because we didn't go to Speedweek. Glad to see consistency at least from the 2 club board.

I learned all I need to know. You guys win. I'm done here.