Author Topic: M/C minimums again.  (Read 83329 times)

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Offline Snail

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M/C minimums again.
« Reply #195 on: September 11, 2006, 09:58:05 AM »
I agree, the rules need to be consolidated, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.

Here is a brief description of what I went through to get my FIM license and enter to run in my class at Bub's event.

6 wk. notice of intent to run, sent in my pre-entry fee and docs in JUNE (still working on the bike) $450

Over 50, had to take a stress EKG and have Dr. 'read' the test. $750

Regular medical exam by Dr. ??$

Now the fun part, trying to read the FIM rules and records.  I could not find/understand what the records were for my class.  It was only after I got to Bonneville and had Charlie look up the speeds for me that I realized the records for my class were soft.

I spent two years building a turbo engine for my bike, the fairing wasn't finished, and I hadn't been able to completely map, worked on bike till 6 PM and left at midnight for Bonneville.  Let the good time roll!

I had 340 HP and 163.5 ft.lbs. torque at 11K rpm, and the aerodynamics of a refrigerator.

Never rode a turbo bike, and trying to handle the hit on 1.2 bars boost was a learning experience. I had 4 consecutive pull outs due to small malfunctions, then got three sucessive clean runs, breaking two soft FIM records, and setting one open AMA record.

Then changed classes to run in B-F and detonated the engine on my first pass.

What a great way to waste money!!!

Offline 1212FBGS

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M/C minimums again.
« Reply #196 on: September 11, 2006, 11:09:42 AM »
what kind of bike was it? what are your records?

Scott... the 2 club has est the mins of displacement and body config for various bikes. I think that any bike that breaks a record or those est min AT BONNIVILLE should be let into the 2 club regardless of santioning body.
kent

Offline JackD

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DETAILS DETAILS
« Reply #197 on: September 11, 2006, 11:39:02 AM »
The administrative details have been bastardized so much to suit a very few that it becomes harder every day.
Regardless of whatever rules they choose to publish, their understanding and enforcement is really ragged
 no matter how you spell the sanction.
Bikes are really pretty easy to define and divide until too many individual variations are put into the rules by
 the rulers and they fail to understand the impact of those. :wink:
"I would rather lose going fast enough to win than win going slow enough to lose."
"That horrible smell is dirty feet being held to the fire"

Offline Pat Kinne / Salt201

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Sanctioning Bodys
« Reply #198 on: September 11, 2006, 11:41:03 AM »
Kent - - Scott has spent untold hours putting what 99% of the racers think are fair minimums together - they are posted for all to see. The real problem is becoming the Policeman to verify that the proper inspections were in place to certify a given record - The Bonneville 200 MPH Club does not "Certify" a record. We are there to honor the racer that sets a verified record above an existing or posted minimum speed.
It is not the Club's position to question the AMA or whoevers proceedures.  We have full confidence in the BNI/SCTA, USFRA, and yes, both the FIA and FIM.  This confidence comes from years of expierence with these bodies.  The past has not shown the same confidence level for some others.  
Maybe the real question is do we need to expand the number of classes that AMA or BUB bring to the table?  There are currently what seems to be 1000's  of records on the books now.  What about running an existing recognized class for membership?  If someone gets a thrill out of cherry picking a "slow" class from out in left field - have at it - just don't expect to become a member of the Bonneville 200 MPH Club.

Pat Kinne

Offline Snail

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M/C minimums again.
« Reply #199 on: September 11, 2006, 11:51:20 AM »
1212, bike is a Suzuki Gix 1K w/turbo.  I ran against two FIM records, Flying Mile and Flying Kilo.  Did aopprox. 218 against a 188 mph record, and a 190 record.  My fastest speed was 220.476

I have no problem with Scotts determination that to qualify for a red hat I have to beat Joe Ammo's BNI record.  We'll work on that next year.

It was my first time over 200 MPH on the salt, and I liked it.

Offline 1212FBGS

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M/C minimums again.
« Reply #200 on: September 11, 2006, 12:30:48 PM »
Pat
thats cool I understand, sounds like a lot of "what if's". doesnt look like any real easy answers, good luck.
kent

dwarner

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M/C minimums again.
« Reply #201 on: September 16, 2006, 10:58:55 AM »
Just returned from a rain shortened WoS. Too bad, things were going very well. We had two new members added to the club, both on existing records. Welcome to Joe Leadford, C/StR and Carl Cook, B/GC.

Two others qualified, Gary Spencer, broke a connecting rod. Gary qualified at 252 on an existing 248 record.

My special 'job well done' goes to Arraon Wilson who qualified at 206+ on a club minimum of 205. A broken crank denied the hat, but it can be done!

DW

aswracing

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M/C minimums again.
« Reply #202 on: September 17, 2006, 12:35:57 PM »
Dan, thanks for the comment. It was heartbreaking for sure. It was pulling like a freight train and I thought it was in the bag. I short shifted to 2nd, 3rd, and 4th, then wound it out for the shift to 5th. Eased out of the throttle, pulled in the clutch, gave a firm tug on the shift lever, let out the clutch as I rolled back into it, expecting to feel the familiar forward thrust, and there was nothing. No noises, no smoke, no nothing, it was like I hit the kill switch.  The pinion side of the crank broke clean off. Gotta go back and rethink a few things in the plan.

Scott, it's really hard to argue the boosted and fuel numbers. VE is no longer the limiting factor when you go that way and it becomes an exercise in keeping it together rather than making the power. Or rather, the two become very interrelated, i.e. you've got to figure out how to get the most out of the motor with an acceptable level of reliability. And "acceptable" is subjective, as well as wallet-driven.

On gas & normally aspirated though, it's not so hard to figure out. I think you can make pretty reasonable estimates of hp per ci. XR750's are at about 2.0. It gets harder as the motor gets bigger though and 1.5 per ci is doing pretty good at the bigger sizes. I'm talking Dynojet rwhp numbers here. And of course pushrod twins.

We all know about what hp it takes to break 200 with a good fairing, and the power needed to get to any other speed is easily calculated from that using the cubed relationship between hp required and speed.

I have many many thoughts on the subject beyond all this but I'm reluctant to post them here, for a variety of reasons. I'd like to address more of the things you brought up. Are you going to World Finals? Maybe we could sit down and talk in the evening. I'll buy you dinner.

I appreciate the size of the problem you're faced with. It seems daunting given the number of variables in terms of motor sizes, streamlining, fuels, forced induction, etc.

It almost seems like a person could come up with a mathematical formula to do it. Come up with a correction factor for each of the variables, and the motor/power affecting variables would need to be included in a fashion that reflects the cubed relationship. It could be done. Then the subjectivity of the whole thing would be reduced to the number of correction factors (one for each variable), instead of spreading the problem out over a couple thousand classes. You'd just publish a formula and some constants to plug into it.

Offline joea

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« Reply #203 on: September 17, 2006, 04:36:11 PM »
spoken like a true engineer...........!!!!!!!

Aaron...............your so awesome..........on many levels...........


way to go...!!!

Joe :)

Offline wheelspin

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M/C minimums again.
« Reply #204 on: September 21, 2006, 08:41:12 PM »
Hey ASW are we still on for sharing the Nitrous bottle at World Finals?

Also if you are having problems with part failure give me a call , I might have some resource's to help you out. i.e - on staff metallurgist, machining, CNC etc.

Also got my new pistons and rods in today, very cool ,and much lighter than stock, tomorrow everything gets balanced and I can start assembly, Web cams on the way, gearbox will be back from REM tomorrow...  Head back from KWS on Tuesday......If I Can get the money together a set of BST carbon wheels......I cant wait

Later

775 240 7200
Nathan

Offline John Noonan

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M/C minimums again.
« Reply #205 on: September 22, 2006, 12:10:22 AM »
Quote from: wheelspin
Hey ASW are we still on for sharing the Nitrous bottle at World Finals?

Also if you are having problems with part failure give me a call , I might have some resource's to help you out. i.e - on staff metallurgist, machining, CNC etc.

Also got my new pistons and rods in today, very cool ,and much lighter than stock, tomorrow everything gets balanced and I can start assembly, Web cams on the way, gearbox will be back from REM tomorrow...  Head back from KWS on Tuesday......If I Can get the money together a set of BST carbon wheels......I cant wait

Later

775 240 7200
Nathan


Nathan,

Glad you got your pistons and rods today, best stuff around!

Good luck!

J

aswracing

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M/C minimums again.
« Reply #206 on: September 22, 2006, 09:00:43 AM »
Joe, don't embarass me. You've been my hero for as long as I've been coming to Bonneville. Anyone who worked as hard as you did, for as long as you did, working through all the issues, figuring out what worked and what didn't, often defying conventional wisdom, to get the red hat, has my respect. You're a racer in the true sense of the word. Equally impressive is what you've done since then.

Wheelspin, yes, everything is still a go from my end. I won't be using any of the nitrous but the tank will be in my trailer so I have lots. Should be reassembling my crank today. Here's what the bike looks like at the moment:


Offline Stainless1

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M/C minimums again.
« Reply #207 on: September 25, 2006, 07:13:24 PM »
Aaron, I remember the bike well since we pitted together, looks like you are missing a few of the parts.  Something is definitely different.  Oh yea, it had a fairing...that must be it.
Hope to see you there....
Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, Bockscar Lakester #1000 with a little N2O

Offline SPARKY

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M/C minimums again.
« Reply #208 on: September 26, 2006, 12:15:51 AM »
Guys,  what a great thread---the trade offs are innumerable---in our sport, as we all know-- AERO is KING---there are beginning to be cases where the smaller displacement classes actually have an advantage because the package can be so much smaller---Rick and jacks car comes to mind...I am not so much of a supporter of min's as I would be on not letting a different driver or rider of the same car or bike get a HAT by breaking it's own record!!!

might STOP SAND BAGGING ye know !!!!!!!!!!!!
Miss LIBERTY,  changing T.K.I.  to noise, dust, rust, BLUE HATS & hopefully not scrap!!

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller

We are going to explore the racing N words NITROUS & NITRO!

aswracing

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M/C minimums again.
« Reply #209 on: September 26, 2006, 12:45:09 PM »
Stainless ... unless something unforseen happens, we'll be there. All the vendors are telling me I'll have the parts in time.

What the hell, this thread needs a good hijack anyway ... Here's what broke and costed me the red hat ...



It's the right side of the crank. I only needed another 30 seconds out of it!

But it's on it's way back together ...


All new pieces parts, trued, welded, cryo'ed, ready to go back in. Carrillo's are pricey but they make good stuff.


M-illegal cases housing a Baker 6-speed trans. This is something you can't do on them furrin' bikes, pull the trans without splitting the cases! You can have a trans out of a Harley in less than 30 minutes.


The shaft that broke protrudes into the cam box on this side and runs the cams & oil pump & ultimately the ignition pickup.

I'm just waiting on some new top end pieces, cylinders and pistons. The nitro is really hard on that stuff and I used up all my spares.

I'm probably not going to ride the bike myself at World Finals, I have someone else in mind ;)

See you there.