Author Topic: Milwaukee Midget  (Read 3298607 times)

0 Members and 7 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Milwaukee Midget

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6663
    • Milwaukee Midget Racing
Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #3075 on: August 25, 2013, 10:04:35 PM »
I told him last year to call it a '67 and get rid of the side marker lights and one windshield wiper mount.

I was also over ruled on an electric water pump. I wish we had dynoed that.
True - the wisdom of Wisdonm was bypassed.

The rational was this -

My concern on the electric water pump was the electrical draw - the ignition needs were a worry, and there is no alternator.  If we go with a dry sump, that cog wheel on the water pump is looking more like a dry sump drive.  Calling it a '67 would have required a grill change.

That was my logic before I ran 118 and change.

In retrospect, I wasn't thinking it would be this close, but I keep looking at these Spridget Specials, and how no two Abarths look alike, and I'm thinking even a bit more radically than I was before.

Is this what happens to a man's mind when you get close?  :-D
"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

Offline Rob

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 315
Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #3076 on: August 25, 2013, 10:08:59 PM »
Chris,

If you did it all in your first trip you wouldn't have a reasonable excuse to go back ;)

Cheers,
Rob

gkabbt

  • Guest
Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #3077 on: August 26, 2013, 07:28:53 AM »
Chris,

GREAT catching up with you yesterday and seeing the Midget!
My pic of Austin and Piggy sitting on the Midget came out perfect.....LOL!  :-D
Lynda and I REALLY enjoyed the hospitality provided by you and Kate!  :cheers:

Gregg

Currently in Beerhaven, WI on our way to WoS!

Offline Milwaukee Midget

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6663
    • Milwaukee Midget Racing
Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #3078 on: August 26, 2013, 07:59:48 AM »
Chris,

GREAT catching up with you yesterday and seeing the Midget!
My pic of Austin and Piggy sitting on the Midget came out perfect.....LOL!  :-D
Lynda and I REALLY enjoyed the hospitality provided by you and Kate!  :cheers:

Gregg

Currently in Beerhaven, WI on our way to WoS!


The door is always open, Gregg.  Enjoy your Western Swing, and don't be strangers!
"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

Offline wisdonm

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 125
Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #3079 on: August 26, 2013, 09:06:09 AM »
The '67 grill change, in my opinion, would also be beneficial. The grill bars are stamped into a piece of thin metal. You could control the amount of air entering the engine compartment by re-flattening those bars.

Did you remove the weather seal from the trunk? This will let out pent up interior air pressure.
Stand on it....brakes only slow you down.

Has a checkered past.

Offline salt27

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1736
Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #3080 on: August 26, 2013, 09:09:59 AM »
How about the '63 door handles ?  :-D

Offline Interested Observer

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 433
Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #3081 on: August 26, 2013, 02:33:20 PM »

Midget, Marcello:
You’re so close--only need about 10% more.
Some ideas in addition to what has been suggested above.

Aero
Since closing the grill and/or radiator seem to be against the rules, fit a radiator with exceedingly close fin spacing or maybe some damaged fins.  Close off any other internal flow paths from behind the grille except maybe a “cold” air duct inlet for the engine airbox.
Lower the car, maybe a bit of rake, too.
Tire pressures?
Were the windows rolled up?

Power
In the dyno session I seem to recall that you just chose the better of the inlet and exhaust configurations that were at hand.  Both of these may respond to refinement and tuning for the generally hotter conditions at Bonneville.  What are the inlet and exhaust tract geometries at present?  Do they work together?
Icewater intercooler?
Front end toe minimized.
Slow down the water pump.  It’s probably cavitating at 8k anyway.

Offline Crackerman

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 206
Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #3082 on: August 26, 2013, 04:09:07 PM »
You built a duct to put fresh air into the air filter, what about building a plenum that houses filter and via the previous duct has high pressure air from in front of radiator cram into said plenum?

Offline Stan Back

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5897
Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #3083 on: August 26, 2013, 06:10:47 PM »
Lose the bumper guards.
Past (Only) Member of the San Berdoo Roadsters -- "California's Most-Exclusive Roadster Club"

Offline Milwaukee Midget

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6663
    • Milwaukee Midget Racing
Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #3084 on: August 26, 2013, 07:25:31 PM »
Getting the C/R up is going to mean a piston change, at the minimum.     And with the ultra high C/R's needed for BMC's to make respectable bhp, my experience is that a o-ringed block with a Coopers head gasket or a solid copper head gasket is going to be required.

Will investigate.


Many of the cars running in vintage/historic road racing are/or have updated/backdated bodywork and bodywork mods/add ons, etc.    Is this permitted by SCTA?    It seems to me that many of the cars running have been "optimized" to a particular configuration.    These 'Midget Coupes' exist/existed in numbers that probably match the one off bodied Abarths . . . . . . .


Dodgey on that one - most hardtops - MOST - were aftermarket, with no factory lineage.  Speedwell stuff was an exception, but then the distinction becomes between MG and Austin Healey - yeah, I know, I know . . .

The '67 grill change, in my opinion, would also be beneficial. The grill bars are stamped into a piece of thin metal. You could control the amount of air entering the engine compartment by re-flattening those bars.

Did you remove the weather seal from the trunk? This will let out pent up interior air pressure.

Grill must be unaltered, but back-dating is a possibility.  I'd have to re-register the car with SCTA.  There is a seal on the trunk, but it has been sealed off from the rest of the interior.  I do need to close up ALL body gaps.


Midget, Marcello:
You’re so close--only need about 10% more.
Some ideas in addition to what has been suggested above.

Aero
Since closing the grill and/or radiator seem to be against the rules, fit a radiator with exceedingly close fin spacing or maybe some damaged fins.  Close off any other internal flow paths from behind the grille except maybe a “cold” air duct inlet for the engine airbox.
Lower the car, maybe a bit of rake, too.
Tire pressures?
Were the windows rolled up?

Power
In the dyno session I seem to recall that you just chose the better of the inlet and exhaust configurations that were at hand.  Both of these may respond to refinement and tuning for the generally hotter conditions at Bonneville.  What are the inlet and exhaust tract geometries at present?  Do they work together?
Icewater intercooler?
Front end toe minimized.
Slow down the water pump.  It’s probably cavitating at 8k anyway.


Looking at radiator . . . er . . . ah . . . "treatments" . yeah, that's a good word.

We were at 35 psi except for the last day, when we bumped it up to 50.

Windows were up.

We're using the Maniflow 6 "  intake and the long center branch header, and that was a combination that gave us best HP.

I've asked about intercooling a normally aspirated engine in the tech questions before - nobody seems to have any experience with it.

1/8" toe - tracked straight and true.

It's not likely cavitating - we've slowed it down to a drive ratio of 0.5357/1 - about 30% of what a stock pulley would be spinning it.

You built a duct to put fresh air into the air filter, what about building a plenum that houses filter and via the previous duct has high pressure air from in front of radiator cram into said plenum?

Yes - that's a must-do - especially seeing as the exhaust and intake are on the same side of the engine.

Lose the bumper guards.

I'll send them to you, Stan - they'll look sharp on your roadster.


I just found KaleCoAuto. The solution for many of your problems.
Johnson Rod
$28.99
As if I'm not already tripping over myself getting in and out of this car.  :roll:
"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

Offline Captthundarr

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1475
  • In line
Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #3085 on: August 26, 2013, 08:26:36 PM »


I just found KaleCoAuto. The solution for many of your problems.
Johnson Rod
$28.99
As if I'm not already tripping over myself getting in and out of this car.  :roll:
[/quote]

May haps the tripod effect will aid in egress, worth a shot.
Live,Laugh, Love /  Jack Scratch Racing /ECTA   
Amy Hartman-Driver, Frank Hartman-everthing else.
C/GALT 137.65 Ohio Mile check that 144.12 2013, AA/GALT 159.34 Ohio Mile 2014. B/GALT 180.577 RECORD 6/15

Offline Stan Back

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5897
Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #3086 on: August 26, 2013, 09:02:31 PM »
If I had a bumper . . .
Past (Only) Member of the San Berdoo Roadsters -- "California's Most-Exclusive Roadster Club"

Offline Crackerman

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 206
Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #3087 on: August 26, 2013, 09:05:41 PM »
If i am not mistaken, air travelling through the carb venturi with fuel atomizing will cool the charge significantly. I have never tested this, but do know alcohol carbs freeze up due to this effect.

Offline 4-barrel Mike

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3173
  • Any fool can drive a V8
Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #3088 on: August 26, 2013, 09:06:31 PM »
If I had a bumper . . .

No need.  They'd look great somewhat below the taillights on the Mercury.   :mrgreen:

Mike
Mike Kelly - PROUD owner of the V4F that powered the #1931 VGC to a 82.803 mph record in 2008!

Offline Milwaukee Midget

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6663
    • Milwaukee Midget Racing
Re: Milwaukee Midget
« Reply #3089 on: August 27, 2013, 12:20:36 AM »
If i am not mistaken, air travelling through the carb venturi with fuel atomizing will cool the charge significantly. I have never tested this, but do know alcohol carbs freeze up due to this effect.

True, and during the dyno runs, you could touch the base of the carb, and it was significantly cooler.  The issue is that the air has such a short period of time to cool down from the atomized fuel that the cooling effect to the charge is diminished.  Additionally, the manifold is steel and the intake and exhaust ports are ~ 1/2 inch from each other, and actually share studs. 

Colder air from the front and possibly a fuel cool can might be of some help, but an anomaly with this set-up is that the car actually ran faster at higher temps and higher adjusted altitudes.  It's most likely an indication of the poor aero, but A series engines tend to produce more power when they are running on the hot side.

The header is wrapped to bring down the underhood temperatures.
"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll: