Blower in a bottle?

[promachine]

Nitrous Oxide, is it a blower or is it fuel?
 Currently nitrous cars run on the fuel records,not the blown records. Should the nitrous
 cars and bikes run in thier own class or are they comparable to a nitro burner or a boost motivated vehicle?

[JackD]

What % of Nitro is real fuel ?
 Does it suck or Blow ?

[Sumner]

Actually an interesting question that I for one never questioned before.
 
 When you think about it some of the drag racers have a choice of running either a blower or nitrous, so that would seem to indicate at least with them that they are comparable, as they run against each other in the same class (just some classes).
 
 I guess my gut feeling is to leave them where they are in the fuel class.  Like you say, it does come out of a bottle and HP derived from turbos or blowers comes from a mechanical device and not from a chemical means.
 
 c ya, Sum
 
  <small>[ March 15, 2005, 10:50 PM: Message edited by: Sumner ]</small>

[John Bjorkman]

Actually nitrous is only increasing the usable oxygen in the engine the same as a blower. I think they should run in the blown class and if they also run nitro or methanol they would run blown fuel.
 John

[John Noonan]

Originally posted by John Bjorkman:
  Actually nitrous is only increasing the usable oxygen in the engine the same as a blower. I think they should run in the blown class and if they also run nitro or methanol they would run blown fuel.
 John

A blower or Turbo creats it's own atmosphere where as a Nitrous set up utilizes the existing atmosphere.  A turbo/Supercharged vehicle is better as it creates it's own atmosphere and makes it more efficient.  In most of the drag racing classes I am aware of, a turbo or supercharged vehicle has to weigh more as they make more horsepower than thier nitrous brothers..and sisters..  

[Malcolm UK]

The rule makers have had to assess what 'Nitrous' does (or achieves in power boosting) rather than what it is.  
 
 If you look at what it, Nitrous Oxide, is - an oxidant (and 'aneasthetic gas' in some forms) - then in no way can it be defined (in US racers terms) as 'Fuel' (non gasoline shall we say).
 
 Common sense suggests that if the nitrous burns more gasoline where there is no hint of 'fuel' around to mix with the extra oxygen then the fuel classes are not where it should be located.
 
 As an oxidant with a much greater oxygen percentage content than air, then 'Nitrous' can burn more fuel and in this case might be compared with a supercharger system.  The cylinders of an engine are filled better releasing more horsepower - just what a blower or turbo achieves, but by using atmospheric air.
 
 My thoughts would be - if any changes were ever to be made - to place all 'nitrous' cars in the blown class appropriate to the actual fuel in the tank.  Not in an artificial environment with all 'non gasoline fuels'.
 
 But hey, what does a Brit know about the US LSR rules?  FIA permit any fuel in their classes regardless of blown or unblown configuration - just classify by motor combustion cycle type (Ha Ha).
 
 Fun comes when you have nitrous and a blower - do you have to go up two classes to get equivalence?

[John Beckett]

Yes, in drag racing Nitrous cars run with Blower cars, but with a weight advantage in order to make things sort of equal. We can?t do anything like that within LSR as weight can?t be used as an equalizer.
 
 I think SCTA has done the right thing in placing N2O in the fuel category even if it is an oxidizer and not an actual fuel.
 
 No new classes, please
 
 JB

[Seldom Seen Slim]

Well, just for the heck of it, I went to Google and entered "naturally aspirated".  The search sent me to a bunch of forums, where I saw the phrase ("...if it isn't turbo (*) or NOS...").  I didn't get a good textbook definition of the phrase, though. . .
 
 But I did get the sense that some folks in other parts of the universe seem to put the mechanically-forced induction (which doesn't include ram air - that's yet another story) of air *(turbo, or by extension any mechanical supercharging system) into the same category as NO2 injection.  That is, both methods increase the amount of oxygen that's available for combustion in the cylinder.  So, using that logic, I guess that nitrous might better be considered "blower-in-a-bottle" rather than "fuel".  Nitrous doesn't burn -- it just helps other stuff burn, so it ain't a fuel.
 
 But - if the rules were changed to put nitrous engines into "blown" classes instead of "fuel" classes -- man-o-man, think of all the re-writing and re-classifying that'd be necessary to bring parity to old and new records.  Hell, just leave it like it is and write the difference off to "that's the way it is, that's the way it's been, and that's the way it's gonna stay".

[LittleLiner]

Nitrous is NOT Gasoline.  Therefore it IS Fuel.  I don?t care about the science involved.  
 
 Enough is enough.  
 
 Perhaps this would be a good time to suggest that a new class structure be developed for rear engine, classic, hybrid powered, bio-diesel fueled five door hatchback, Korean built, compression ignition, three-wheeled vehicles originally designed to carry at least 5 and 3/8th normal sized adults at high speeds in an artic environment?  At least 678.034 such cars must have been available for sale to the general public in New Zealand.  There should be separate divisions for bio diesel unblown (CRBDU), bio diesel with nitrous unblown (CRBDUN), bio diesel with supercharger (CRBDS) and bio diesel with supercharger and nitrous(CRBDSN).  El Caminos and Rancheros would be allowed in this class as well if at least one front fender from a Korean three-wheeler is attached in the original location.  No one piece front ends.  To distinguish this class from Production vehicles at least 4 of the following three modifications must be made. 1) Glovebox welded shut, 2) right window rolled down, 3) Left turn signal blinking.  Driver must sit totally on top of the engine unless engines were originally mounted on the roof.  Cars with XM Radios move up two engine classes.  Interiors may be gutted as long as all original upholstery, trim and seats are retained in original position.  Lights must be retained but can be painted green.  All vehicles (except AA engined Supercharged with Nitrous ? AA/CRBDSN) must be licensed, insured and inspected in Nova Scotia.  Flathead two cylinder engines produced in August of 1937 are allowed to run in V2/CRBDU with original heads, (El Mirage only - class minimum 70.0030 mph).  Front air dams are permitted if painted orange. (also see vague reference to streamlining in rules for open class motorcycles which does not apply but may be a sticking point in impound never the less).  It is suggested that new vehicles entering these classes send seven color photos of the good looking girl next door to the SCTA tech committee (three wheel sub committee) at least 51.6 months before the meet. Traction control permitted, maybe.  All vehicles limited to two wheel drive only.  Six vehicles with three wheel drive have been grandfathered to run in these classes until 2008.  Drivers must have at least three teeth.  Waiver for West Viginia drivers will be considered on a tooth by tooth basis. . . .
 
 Anyway  . . . Making another set of classes for Nitrous makes as much sense as the bio diesel classes I joke about and suggest above.
 
 But then again .

[JackD]

Using that logic, all vehicles with a proper air scoop should be in the blown ckass, unless they suck and go slow enough to be honorable.
 Then it is ok for now.
 Intercoolers, EFI, and traction control will all ruin the sport
 Nitrous is defined by SFI as a fuel and should be treated as such. Just like anything else, how much is too much ?
 Shame on those that go too fast with parts wash, it's just not fair.
 Well that's what I hear anyway.
 I will believe it when I see it.
 As long as you can make a new class so that when somebody steps up the slow ones can step out of the way and still race sorta.
 Everybody knows that thousand of "World Records" is good for some business, but soon it becomes as important as getting your name in the phone book.
 Is that stirring the pot or are we wearing one ?

[joea]

nitrous is not a blower in a bottle.........
 
 
 and nitrous is NOT "increasing the usable oxygen in the engine the same as a blower"
 
 it must be fun to try to twist how the world
 works into ones personal ideas and aspirations
 
 lets create a new class for folks who cant run in the classes that are already there........
 call it MA...for "my aspirations".......
 
 Joe

[Seldom Seen Slim]

Well, Joe, then how do you explain what nitrous is?  I don't see how it is anything other than putting more oxygen into the cylinder. even if the mechanics are not the same as blowing more air into the cylinder.
 
 What is it, pray tell, in your definition?

[}{ead$hot Zod]

Not to hijack the thread but,
 
 Don't laugh about the biodiesel in the diesel pick-up classes. I asked about it and it looks like I need to get special dispensation by writing letters at least 45 days in advance. Only the event fuel guy seems to know what it is and unfortunately won't be bringing any. Lord knows what will happen when I ask to run 50% methanol injected like most diesel trucks race with nowadays.

[JackD]

I think gas, diesel, fuel, and nitrous are pretty well defined.
 NA and Force Fed seem to be fairly well understood.
 New classes seem to pop up everytime somebody wants to NOT race each other.
 There was a display that included 2  Highboy roadsters side by side. One of them was huge (streached) and the other had a much smaller body with creative dimensions taken from a unique spot.
 If we can't decide what they are supposed to be, then we don't have a chance.
 As long as you can divide the classes, the conquer part should be easy.

[RICK]

Nitrous= not a blower,not fuel.
  To make more power, I have to burn more gas. If I add more gas to the mix(richer) it smokes black,stumbles, goes slower. If I add too much more air (lean)it goes faster up until it burns the top of the pistons off. So i try to keep the air/gas ratio around 15 to 1.
  Only about 20% of the stuff we breath is oxygen. So when my piston pulls down in the hole, it sucks in a gulp of air that is about 80% usless garbage.
   N2O, two parts nitrogen, one oxygen. Now when I hit the magic button, it dumps raw gas in the motor AND nitrous,which has the oxygen atom to make the gas burn. Nitrous oxide by it self will not burn, its non-flamable.
 
 What makes NITRO better than gasoline?
 Superchargers are more like 'artifical compression'  we don't classify by compression, or have compression rules do we?
 I say leave well enough alone, no need for more classes.
  Rick.