Blower in a bottle?

[jimmy six]

Littleliner has it correct and I will vote for his progressive thinking for a rule change.

[joea]

Jon W..........your awefully defensive posting retaliations about quotes that were not prefaced to you, ie I cut and pasted a quote from previous
 banter in this thread and responded to it, without credit to the origin...........where I did cut and paste from one of your entries ie "mechanical" I linked your name to it appropriately........sorry if you dont like that,
 but thanks anyway for the dissertation about your feelings.............
 
 
 it might be fun to debate how different things are different.........I have some other things to do........if you guys want to debate how they are similar, I will probably throw out some analogies (it really hurts my feelings that one might consider them twists) on my opinion once in awhile......
 
 gotta go, my car is running in the blown class today, cuz  its cold outside and that whole displacement of normal air with O2 rich air thing
 
 I enter into this banter thing from a friendly dialogue slant....it doesnt seem to be recieved that way at times....
 
 (Jon W. life is good...who buys the first cold one on the salt?, I am only marginally clearer face to face)
 
 Joe  

[JackD]

Just be sure to get the class number correct or they will bust your chops.
 And if you have a stock as produced fron the factory and made legal to race entry in the middle of all the rest and they forgot to list a class designation at El mirage, that just too bad.  You have to bring it back next year to see if we remembered it.
 At least the shabby treatment can come from all directions and does.
 "Club Racing" is best when they use real clubs.

[promachine]

There seems to be many opinions on this subject.
 I would never suggest that they make a new class in our sport. It seems to be bad voddoo to suggest such a thing among most officials and members of SCTA. And I can see the point, we dont need a class for every single car and bike out there.
 I like tradition, and our beloved sport is full of it. Most forms of motorsports are changing and rewrighting the rules for parity. Nascar for example is a good one. NHRA is even talking about a spec engine in TOP FUEL for crying out loud!
 Thank goodness we dont have to worry about t.v. ratings. We can do what we want and be as different as we please, the way it was and the way it is!

[Ron Gibson]

A little more fuel for these fires. The other drag racing body runs Blown, Supercharged, Mechanical Induction engines on alcohol in the same class as injected only Nitro engines. Toss up on who wins.
   A few years ago there was a Diesel mechanic back East that ran a top fuel car powered by a Detroit Diesel with large amounts of nitrous. He wasn't very competitive but I think he ran in the sixes. What LSR class would that engine be in, Diesel or fuel?
   Just food for thought. I think we've got enough classes now.
   Ron

[Glen]

If you want to know how many clases there are send me a PM and I will send you the list

[maxmph]

Sorry I'm running a little late. I was running all of Joe's beer funnel experiments and just woke up. Results inconclusive so far. Anyway, I think LittleLliner's comment on the classes was about the funniest thing I've read in a looong time. I laughed so hard I knocked a tooth out with my knee! Dang it, now I have to change classes!

[ddahlgren]

A turbo changes the air density as does a supercharger. nitrous while adding a little air density due to it being so cold mostly adds oxygen as does nitro. So where is the blower in a bottle? If you think the pressure in the bottle changes the manifold pressure you are wrong i have data logged it for over 4 miles and there is very little change in pressure. Sorry it is not a blower in a bottle any more than nitro is a blower in a drum. They both have to work with the air density at hand and have no way to make a marked effect on it. SCTA has the classes on target in this case. But what about that rotary factor LOL....
 Dave

[StraightSix]

Originally posted by Dave Dahlgren:
 But what about that rotary factor LOL....
 Dave

I was going to mention that sometime!
 
 2x is clearly the correct factor as every other sanctioning body recognizes, not 3x . . . but there are still rotary cars with records still current    

[ddahlgren]

The records are current because the rule is unfair. No one wants to bother to build a car that fits the class. Don't start with this though i did a couple of yers ago on the e-mail list and generated over 300 e-mails. Do a search of the 'dreaded rotary factor'
 Dave

[D-Type]

Back to basics:
 
 Turbocharger, supercharger, blower is a mechanical process
 
 What you put into the combustion chamber is a fuel: gasoline, toluene, benzene, acetone, hydrogen peroxide, methanaol, ethanol, butyl alcohol, or whatever is a fuel.  All these are liquids, but if someone burned gaseous butane, propane, hydrogen or whatever it would still be a fuel
 
 Nitrous oxide goes into the combustion chamber.  It may be on the oxidising side of the chemical equation rather than the oxidised side, but it's still part of the combustion process.  So it must be considered a fuel as it sure as hell is not a mechanical process.

[JackD]

Well, that just about takes care of those fish.
 What's next ?

[joea]

oh come on....it was just getting abit more entertaining........I was hoping to see an entire class restructuring....
 
 ill try to keep my feeble misguided impressions of N2O to my inebt self..
 
 Joe  

[Stroker]

I'm finding it hard to believe you guys can go so dang fast without fully understanding the combustion process you're using to get there.
 You need to mix fuel with air to get combustion. The only part of air that supports combustion is oxygen, which represents 20% of the volume.
 You must mix it in the correct ratio. Every fuel has a pair of parameters called the lower and upper limits of flammability. If you create a ratio outside those parameters incomplete or no combustion will occur.
 The engine will pump a certain volume of air. You mix fuel with that air trying to arrive at the optimum ratio, keeping in mind that only 20% of the air volume will support combustion.
 If you could increase the oxygen content in that volume of air from 20 to 30% you could, and in fact would have to, add more fuel. Getting more fuel into the chamber at the optimum ratio, all other factors being equal, will result in a substantial increase in power. It's a ratio of hydrocarbons to oxygen. Nitromethane carries an oxygen component and can be run a lot richer than gasoline because it has some of the oxygen it requires trapped in the fuel.
 The UEL and LEL for unleaded gasoline are 7.1 and 1.2% of air by volume.
 Since spark ignition engines are known to develop their maximum power at air:fuel ratios between 12.5:1 and 14:1 displacing plain old air with an oxygen rich gas allows you to cram more combustible fuel into a cylinder and still be within the ratio parameters for maximum power.
 NO2 is not a fuel, it is an oxidizer, as is air. It does function similar to a forced induction system in that it makes more oxygen available for combustion which allows you to burn more fuel.
 How you classify it is a different can of worms altogether.
 
 ~Stroker
 www.snartracing.com

[JackD]

You would think Canadians would be faster.
 Maybe they spend most of the time thinking about going fast instead of actually doing it.
 Just think how fast Joe would be if he speant more time thinking and less time doing.
 Ya know when Ya think about it, He is pretty fast.
 I have developed a theory.
 If you don't completely understand something, hurry up and get it over with and some times the result is faster.
  The same goes for the high bucks factory efforts. Beat them now before they invent something else.
 I see "FRACTION CONTROL" as the next biggie.
 Sorry, no Queen of Spades here, go fish.