Author Topic: Stop Mining the Salt Flats Petition  (Read 43320 times)

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Offline saltwheels262

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Re: Stop Mining the Salt Flats Petition
« Reply #45 on: August 14, 2015, 06:17:13 PM »

Trucks & trailers haul it to SLC for use as ice melt on the roads
[/quote]

That should be way better than what's under Great Lake Erie.
I'm sure it takes care of ice and snow quickly.

Bf262
[/quote]

They might be getting 300 dollars a ton for that.
bub '07 - 140.293 a/pg   120" crate street mill  
bub '10 - 158.100  sweetooth gear
lta  7/11 -163.389  7/17/11; 3 run avg.-162.450
ohio -    - 185.076 w/#684      
lta 8/14  - 169.xxx. w/sw2           
'16 -- 0 runs ; 0 events

" it's not as easy as it looks. "
                            - franey  8/2007

Offline kiwi belly tank

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Re: Stop Mining the Salt Flats Petition
« Reply #46 on: August 14, 2015, 06:29:22 PM »
So after you stop all the mining on the flats, how and who is going to pay for all that work you are sugesting? Just saying maybe it should be an effort with the racers and the Mining concerns to work towards a better Salt Flats. So as far as your petition goes put your money where your mouth is!!!!
Oh yea just so you know I'm not in the mining business, but I do care about the Salt Flats, and I don't even race.

Ok, lets be real here. If this petition collects enough votes to be presented, that does not mean somebody from the federal government is walking into Intrepid & shutting off the light's but it just might help to get something moving because right now we have jack $hit.
As the Mayor of Wendover Utah your town no doubt receives substantial financial input from the racers not to mention the boost in business to your Carquest store, all of which I presume you don't see flowing right now so there is more than just the goodness of your heart here.
  Sid.

Offline Speed Limit 1000

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Re: Stop Mining the Salt Flats Petition
« Reply #47 on: August 14, 2015, 06:31:43 PM »
Intrepid Potash, Inc. Mine Operations
Wendover Facility
Product Muriate of Potash
Extraction Method Lake Brine Evaporation
Nameplate Capacity 120,000 tons of Potash annually
Effective Capacity 93,000 tons of Potash annually
Minimum Remaining
Reserve Life 30 Years
The Wendover Facility is located 122 miles west of Salt
Lake City, Utah and has been actively used for potash
production from naturally occurring brines for over 75 years.
Brine from a shallow potash containing aquifer is collected in
over 100 lineal miles of open ditches throughout the 88,000
acres of land controlled by Intrepid. In addition to the brine
that is collected in the shallow aquifer, there is a deep potash
containing aquifer 1,000 feet below ground. Intrepid has
drilled three wells, two of which were drilled in 2008, into this
deep aquifer to provide supplemental brine into the system.
Since acquiring the Wendover Facility in 2004, we have made
a number of process improvements including applying best
practices to increase volumes and efficiencies.
We pump the brine collected in the ditch system into an
8,000 acre solar evaporation pond to evaporate water and
precipitate salts. Over five billion gallons of brine are pumped
into the solar pond system each year. As the brine becomes
saturated with potash, it is transferred through a series of
smaller evaporation ponds into harvest ponds. When the
ripened brine finally reaches the harvest ponds, the ore (a
combination of salt and potash) precipitates onto the pond
floor. The remaining brine in the harvest ponds is removed
and the ore is harvested and transported by elevating scrapers
to the mill for processing. In the mill, the potash is separated
from the salt by flotation. The material is then dried, compacted,
and screened into standard product or compacted into a
granular grade of white potash. To produce Metal Recovery
Salt (MRS), which is a combination of potash and salt, the
ore from the harvest ponds is sent directly to the dryer to
be dried and screened. The final products are conveyed and
stored in bulk storage warehouses. From the warehouses,
potash and MRS are loaded directly into railcars or trucks
for shipment.
The left over brine, rich in magnesium chloride, is removed
from the harvest ponds and transferred into additional
evaporation ponds to concentrate further. Then, the brine is
transferred into storage ditches and lined ponds. From storage,
the magnesium chloride brine, which is used as a winter highway
de-icing product and also a dust control and soil stabilization
agent, is loaded into trucks or railcars for shipment.
John Gowetski, red hat @ 221.183 MPH MSA Lakester, Bockscar #1000 60 ci normally aspirated w/N20

Offline saltwheels262

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Re: Stop Mining the Salt Flats Petition
« Reply #48 on: August 14, 2015, 08:17:38 PM »
Quote from: crawford link=topic=15302.msg280247#msg280247 date=143956
[/quote

so there is more than just the goodness of your heart here.
 

Sid, don't think we've ever met. Do know that you are very pro salt flats racing and much involved with SCTA.
Don't want your toes stepped on or think that Mike's should be either. I've met him and it's been very helpful to me and others. Was last there in '10.
 Everybody's business is down along with the racing organizations. Although, The tourist and gamblers that come through Wendover are plenty good for business ; they probably don't give a  s hit about racing. those two groups don't get free camping in a museum lot that Crawford is promoting.( to a point) . I don't think they get late hours at the car parts store either. Maybe some kind of storage.
Does he really need our money?


My venting may be uncalled for. So is pis sing on him.

do not want this to turn into a any kind of squabble. You can PM me or call ~~  216.990.8547. .

Unlike the pope , I can be wrong.

Apologizing now if I am ,
Franey




bub '07 - 140.293 a/pg   120" crate street mill  
bub '10 - 158.100  sweetooth gear
lta  7/11 -163.389  7/17/11; 3 run avg.-162.450
ohio -    - 185.076 w/#684      
lta 8/14  - 169.xxx. w/sw2           
'16 -- 0 runs ; 0 events

" it's not as easy as it looks. "
                            - franey  8/2007

Offline BobDcuda

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Re: Stop Mining the Salt Flats Petition
« Reply #49 on: August 14, 2015, 08:57:59 PM »
To address the concern about who pays for fixing the problem IF Intrepid were to be shut down.  Some of the information I received from the bonnevillelover@gmail.com email site included Intrepid's last few Annual Reports, which they have to file with the SEC.  Public documents.  In the Footnotes of the 2014 Report is a paragraph "Reclamation Obligations".  It reads as follows:

"Our surface permits require us to reclaim property disturbed by operations at our facilities.  Our operations in Utah and New Mexico have specific obligations related to reclamation of the land after mining and processing operations are concluded.  The discounted present value of our estimated reclamation costs for our mines as of December 31, 2014, is approximately $22.0 million, which is reflected in our financial statements.  Various permits and authorization documents negotiated with or issued by the appropriate governmental authorities include these estimated reclamation costs on an undiscounted basis.  The undiscounted amount of our estimated reclamation costs for our mines as of December 31, 2014, is approximately $57.6 million."

So their Balance Sheet already has accrued the expected requirement to "reclaim" the area(s) they've been mining - namely the Bonneville Salt Flats.  If they had to do this reclamation work today, at the several facilities, it would cost $57.6 million.  But because that money won't be spent for anywhere from 30 to 100 years from now, its current value is the $22.0.

If they had to shut down at Wendover, they've got lots of cash available to pay for reclamation.  Besides lots of cash in the bank, as shown on their Balance Sheet, they also have a huge credit facility, or bank borrowing line, of $250 million that has barely been tapped.  They had NO DEBT until 2013 when they sold $150 million of senior notes, which they used along with other cash in their wallet to make some major capital expenditures in 2013.

They go on to say:  "It is difficult to estimate and predict the potential actual costs and liabilities associated with remediation and reclamation, and there is no guarantee that we will not be identified in the future as potentially responsible for additional remediation and reclamation costs, either as a result of changes in existing laws and regulations or as a result of the identification of additional matters subject to remediation and/or reclamation obligations or liabilities."

I.e., cost of doing business, and they know it.

I agree with the notion that we might lose the salt anyway, if we do nothing, so why not push hard now. 

Offline kiwi belly tank

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Re: Stop Mining the Salt Flats Petition
« Reply #50 on: August 14, 2015, 10:25:50 PM »
Quote from: crawford link=topic=15302.msg280247#msg280247 date=143956
[/quote

so there is more than just the goodness of your heart here.
 

Sid, don't think we've ever met. Do know that you are very pro salt flats racing and much involved with SCTA.
Don't want your toes stepped on or think that Mike's should be either. I've met him and it's been very helpful to me and others. Was last there in '10.


 Everybody's business is down along with the racing organizations. Although, The tourist and gamblers that come through Wendover are plenty good for business ; they probably don't give a  s hit about racing. those two groups don't get free camping in a museum lot that Crawford is promoting.( to a point) . I don't think they get late hours at the car parts store either. Maybe some kind of storage.
Does he really need our money?


My venting may be uncalled for. So is pis sing on him.

do not want this to turn into a any kind of squabble. You can PM me or call ~~  216.990.8547. .

Unlike the pope , I can be wrong.

Apologizing now if I am ,
Franey

 I was no more pi$$ing on Mike than he was pi$$ing on us, there are facts that needed to be included & thats what I did. I've known Mike since the late 80's at the Chevron & bear him no malice.
It's my understanding that Speed Week is the second largest cash cow for Wendover.
 We should be operating on straight up truth here & that does not appear to have been the case for a long time in regards to our problem here.
That's why I found myself on the salt in a rain storm recently with a hunk of pipe, a broom stick & a GoPro.
I am very passionate about Bonneville, I live for it & that's the reason I came here in the first place.
  Sid. 






Offline Dakin Engineering

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Re: Stop Mining the Salt Flats Petition
« Reply #51 on: August 14, 2015, 10:55:22 PM »
BobD,
  Does Intrepid as an LLC, have an out?
Thanks for your input.

Sam
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Turbo Sportsters since '97

Offline BobDcuda

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Re: Stop Mining the Salt Flats Petition
« Reply #52 on: August 15, 2015, 12:57:15 AM »
Intrepid is not an LLC - Limited Liability Company; they are a standard form corporation, incorporated in the state of Delaware.  They state in their Annual Report that they are a subchapter C corporation subject to both federal and state income taxes.  Even if they were an LLC, all of the company assets would be subject to claims, however assets of the individual owners would be protected - just as they are in a regular corporate form.

Offline rickyracer

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Re: Stop Mining the Salt Flats Petition
« Reply #53 on: August 15, 2015, 08:34:49 AM »
I forwarded the petition link to Bloodhound SSC and Aussie Invader websites asking them to inform their supporters etc.
Mark Read at Aussie Invader has already responded that he will do that and put something on their Facebook page.

I also put a similar post on the GRRC ( Goodwood UK ) members forum.

The petition is open to overseas residents - just omit the zip code and verify/confirm when you get the email response.

If anyone is able inform significant groups of motor sport fans perhaps via newspapers or magazines this would help grow the numbers before the petition deadline of 10 September.

Richard

Offline Dakin Engineering

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Re: Stop Mining the Salt Flats Petition
« Reply #54 on: August 15, 2015, 05:37:48 PM »
Richard,
 Next one is on me.  :cheers:

Sam
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Turbo Sportsters since '97

Offline Sumner

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Re: Stop Mining the Salt Flats Petition
« Reply #55 on: August 15, 2015, 08:03:11 PM »
Nice request on Thumper Talk to support the petition...

http://www.thumpertalk.com/

How many other forms on the net, car/bike do we know of that have put out the word?

Sum


Offline Seldom Seen Slim

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Re: Stop Mining the Salt Flats Petition
« Reply #56 on: August 15, 2015, 08:05:03 PM »
I sent it down to Rosco McGlashan and the Aussie Invader and asked him to pass it on and around to folks he's in contact with.
Jon E. Wennerberg
 a/k/a Seldom Seen Slim
 Skandia, Michigan
 (that's way up north)
2 Club member x2
Owner of landracing.com

Offline Dakin Engineering

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Re: Stop Mining the Salt Flats Petition
« Reply #57 on: August 15, 2015, 11:59:13 PM »
Ya'll make me proud.
It is this fellowship that convinced me to try.

Sam
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Turbo Sportsters since '97

Offline rickyracer

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Re: Stop Mining the Salt Flats Petition
« Reply #58 on: August 17, 2015, 08:09:31 AM »
I am sure we are all concerned we have got less than 750 votes on the petition and a quarter of the time to the deadline has elapsed, with the target as 100,000 votes?

With typically over 500 entries at Speed Week surely each entry could email 5 family or crew members who have their own email address and would support the petition.
Then those crew members have family too - and so on?

Not suggesting we can achieve a chain letter but this may be a one-off chance that, in hindsight, people who didn't vote or didn't even know of the petition ( more likely ) may regret a lost opportunity...........

Richard

Offline rickyracer

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Re: Stop Mining the Salt Flats Petition
« Reply #59 on: August 17, 2015, 09:15:59 AM »
The Bonneville salt flats are world famous and one of only two reasonably usable major land speed venues in the world. Combine that with the heritage of the American motor car, the evolution of the hot rod and Speed Week, an American icon that ranks on the world motor sport stage with the Indianapolis 500 and Le Mans.

An oil refinery where I carried out some machinery overhauls in the Bordeaux region of France was later closed down by the French government to protect the vineyards from risk of contamination. It realised which was most important for France’s heritage and future prestige and that it would have been unforgivable to lose a long term asset and national treasure for transient and relatively minor business interests.

On the same basis and as a priority the U.S. Government should be persuaded to step in urgently with a precautionary stop to brine removal and support a programme to return material that can chemically support renewal of the salt flats.

Good luck to those guys who are working with due diligence on this. Preservation of what you’ve got must surely take priority over the prospect of finding an alternative.

Richard