Landracing Forum
Bonneville Salt Flats Discussion => Bonneville General Chat => Topic started by: Dakin Engineering on August 11, 2015, 05:27:32 PM
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https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/stop-mining-bonneville-salt-flats-0
Click on the link and tell your friends, please!
It may not work, but I am trying.
(Kinda like my racing effort)
Sam
#6062
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I tried to send this message to the Save the Salt Coalition but the Submit button is turned off. Hmmmmm.
After reading the BLM document, I started a petition on We The People. I think the first course of action must be to shut off the pumps. Second would be fill in the drainage ditches. I have no hope of a restoration effort by Intrepid or the BLM. Perhaps the Salt will reform; I hope it doesn't take another 14,000 years.
Please sign the petition,
Sam
#6062
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Way to go Sam. :cheers:
Could I sign with me being a non citizen?.
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It has required spaces for name and email address.
Not required is zip code.
(A friend from Liverpool has already signed.)
Because it is an INTERNATIONAL Speedway, I think everybody has a say.
Sam
#6062
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Just put my name on the dotted line
thanks, SAM, I will have to say , we have a long way to go.
MAX :cheers:
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Another one from "offshore" signed up.
Robin
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Another one from "offshore" signed up.
Robin
+1
All signed up
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Long time lurker here. Anyone who has ever even been to the salt should sign this. 100K signatures on the petition and the White House will reply and that might just catch the attention of the right people and get some action before it's just flat too late.
Edit: I just tweeted at Hot Rod Magazine the link to Sid's video of the salt conditions at the 7 mile mark and a link to the petition. Hope they put it out there to their followers and this gains some steam.
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Hi Sam
Thanks for posting the link, just put my ' John Henry ' on there too
Have you thought about putting the link on the ' H.A.M.B ' forum as there are a ton of people on it all the time 24-7
I'am a thinking that could really help too, to get the word out as us salt nuts need all the help we can get on this deal
Don
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I'm in & sharing around the world.
Sid.
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Hi Sam
Thanks for posting the link, just put my ' John Henry ' on there too
Have you thought about putting the link on the ' H.A.M.B ' forum as there are a ton of people on it all the time 24-7
I'am a thinking that could really help too, to get the word out as us salt nuts need all the help we can get on this deal
Don
Yellow Bullet too!
Mike
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I signed the petition but when an email was sent to me to confirm my signature, I couldn't do so because I got a message that said that "Safari could not make a secure connection to the server". Also the link to the supporting document said "URL not found." Maybe the server knows that I am in Canada! I'll try again next week when I arrive in the U.S.
Tom
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Me too.
Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ (Nashville at present)
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Me too.
There was a song which said, daddy take us down to Murimber county, down by the green river where paradise lay, I'm sorry my son, but you're too late in asking, Mr peabody's coal train done hauled it away!
We can change a few words and march down to the Whitehouse and chant it. You never know what makes some of these power players tick.
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Signed, and shared .
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I signed it and got confirmation and I'm in Calgary. The last time I checked Alberta's still in Canada although some of the greener constituants of the country might wish otherwise. :-D :-D :evil:
Pete
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Signed in, 269 so far.
Maybe Intrepid will increase pumping after hearing about petition.
JL222
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Signed. Thanks guys. :cheers:
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Before I sign up, will this put me on the radar? We have all seen the movies.
DW
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I signed up today.
Dave
#3611
BGMS
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Signed, and shared
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signed and shared on fb,
Please fix supporting doc. link, it does not look good!
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I don't think I can fix it on the petition, but here it is;
http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medialib/blm/ut/salt_lake_fo/planning/documents.Par.17457.File.dat/Intrepid%20EA.pdf
Sam
#6062
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I signed and commented..............now we need a few more........FAST :-)
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Before I sign up, will this put me on the radar? We have all seen the movies.
DW
Too late Dan, you've already been scanned. :roll:
Sid.
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I signed and its verified!~ :cheers:
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Hey guys don't forget to have your wife and kids sign.
Just dawned on me to have Linda sign.
Troy and family next and their face books.
JL222
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Before I sign up, will this put me on the radar? We have all seen the movies.
DW
Undoubtedly, Dan - say "howdy" to the IRS agent when he stops by - tell him Chris says hello as well, and ask him how Charlene and the kids are doing.
As the Mayor of Impound, it's gotta be kinda tough to keep a low profile. :wink:
I signed up, but know that it is actually the pumps operated by Intrepid that put brine back onto the flats. Strategically, I suggest we use this position as a bargaining chip, and stay in touch with Stuart with STS. A coordinated effort with clear objectives is in order.
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signed, but I couldn't "share" for some reason. However I will encourage others to stick their moniker on it too.
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Quote from MM
I signed up, but know that it is actually the pumps operated by Intrepid that put brine back onto the flats. Strategically, I suggest we use this position as a bargaining chip, and stay in touch with Stuart with STS. A coordinated effort with clear objectives is in order.
[/quote]
This petition if successful is not going to turn off the lights over at Intrepid. All it's going to do is put the problem on the Federal Government's table & they will have to acknowledge it plus nobody has shown me any proof that the pumping campaign has not accelerated the salt loss. There's been a whole lot of "no factual information" for a long time now while every man & his dog carry out a feasibility study & the next one is due in 2018.
Sid
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I know they pump coal in water as a slurry, solids and liquid. I don't know why it can't be done with granular salt as in their mountains of salt instead of just brine. If they put it back on the flats, mother nature could level and move it around at her leisure. At least it would be in the proper place and help with the healing (notice, I didn't say recover).
Ron
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I understand that so much of the salt in their ponds is so hard packed they can't even rip it up with a dozer.
It was mentioned to me that "maybe we should just pay Intrepid & go race on their ponds".
Sid.
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I am sure that Intrepid and their share holders would welcome that liability.
DW
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I understand that so much of the salt in their ponds is so hard packed they can't even rip it up with a dozer.
It was mentioned to me that "maybe we should just pay Intrepid & go race on their ponds".
Sid.
I sort of think that is the real reason they pump salt back, it frees up space so they can continue to operate without having to find a more expensive way to get rid of the salt.
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Who came up with the idea you can drain and fill a pond at the same time?
Just askin'
Sam
#6062
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Who came up with the idea you can drain and fill a pond at the same time?
Just askin'
Sam
#6062
Oh I really like this guy. :cheers:
Sid.
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Who came up with the idea you can drain and fill a pond at the same time?
Just askin'
Sam
#6062
Sam, that is how they "raised" salt back in the days of wooden ships and iron men.... islanders trapped and released water into a variety of ponds built on the coast...
Did you miss the part about Intrepid increasing efficiency... they don't need a way to get rid of salt, that is what rail cars do, they need a place to store all the water in the desert so they can use it again.
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Did you miss the part about Intrepid increasing efficiency... they don't need a way to get rid of salt, that is what rail cars do, they need a place to store all the water in the desert so they can use it again.
Bob, are they actually selling the salt? I go to the Intrepid sales site, and the only source of salt sales I see indicates Moab.
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If they can't rip it up with a bulldozer, that is what the BSF "used to be like". What do we have now???
Ron
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So after you stop all the mining on the flats, how and who is going to pay for all that work you are sugesting? Just saying maybe it should be an effort with the racers and the Mining concerns to work towards a better Salt Flats. So as far as your petition goes put your money where your mouth is!!!!
Oh yea just so you know I'm not in the mining business, but I do care about the Salt Flats, and I don't even race.
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Mr. Crawford,
My proposal is to shut off the pumps and fill the ditches.
I'll bring a shovel to World of Speed and get started.
Sam
#6062
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So after you stop all the mining on the flats, how and who is going to pay for all that work you are sugesting? Just saying maybe it should be an effort with the racers and the Mining concerns to work towards a better Salt Flats. So as far as your petition goes put your money where your mouth is!!!!
Oh yea just so you know I'm not in the mining business, but I do care about the Salt Flats, and I don't even race.
And Mike, that's the whole rub.
Intrepid is the owner of the current conveyance of salt back to the north end.
Mike, I DID sign the petition - the reason being is that the issue needs to be looked at, awareness needs to be raised, and provided they're not moving the salt out of the area - there are those who contend otherwise - then I think Intrepid needs to put it back, and I think they need to be held to that task.
And it's rare when a mining company has a cooperative and interested party involved that is actually helping to raise funds to do so. I'm unaware of any mining company that has a watchdog such as Save the Salt that has actually invested money into the recovery process, rather than simply going for legal redress.
To those who say, "don't take it any further up the governmental chain", I can only say that even the BLM has admitted they have not been keeping close tabs on this issue.
Additionally, if the new potash extraction facility goes into operation, it will further depress local potash prices and make Intrepid less likely to even be ABLE to replenish the salt.
It's a sticky wicket.
A call to and from "upstairs" is in order, and even if the result is not what we would hope for, there's little reason to expect that continuing down the current path will provide results favorable to racers.
Respectfully yours,
Chris Conrad
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Mr. Dalton thanks---- you get it the solution is going to have to have a political side to it!!
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Did you miss the part about Intrepid increasing efficiency... they don't need a way to get rid of salt, that is what rail cars do, they need a place to store all the water in the desert so they can use it again.
Bob, are they actually selling the salt? I go to the Intrepid sales site, and the only source of salt sales I see indicates Moab.
Yes they are selling salt, I highly doubt they would be giving the stuff away. I have personally seen train cars loaded with the stuff (potash is not white), Trucks & trailers haul it to SLC for use as ice melt on the roads plus Shelton's also have a plant in Wendover with stock piles & they are packaging it & sending it somewhere other than the flats.
Mike Crawford should be able to tell us about that.
Sid.
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[/quote]
Trucks & trailers haul it to SLC for use as ice melt on the roads
[/quote]
That should be way better than what's under Great Lake Erie.
I'm sure it takes care of ice and snow quickly.
Bf262
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Trucks & trailers haul it to SLC for use as ice melt on the roads
[/quote]
That should be way better than what's under Great Lake Erie.
I'm sure it takes care of ice and snow quickly.
Bf262
[/quote]
They might be getting 300 dollars a ton for that.
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So after you stop all the mining on the flats, how and who is going to pay for all that work you are sugesting? Just saying maybe it should be an effort with the racers and the Mining concerns to work towards a better Salt Flats. So as far as your petition goes put your money where your mouth is!!!!
Oh yea just so you know I'm not in the mining business, but I do care about the Salt Flats, and I don't even race.
Ok, lets be real here. If this petition collects enough votes to be presented, that does not mean somebody from the federal government is walking into Intrepid & shutting off the light's but it just might help to get something moving because right now we have jack $hit.
As the Mayor of Wendover Utah your town no doubt receives substantial financial input from the racers not to mention the boost in business to your Carquest store, all of which I presume you don't see flowing right now so there is more than just the goodness of your heart here.
Sid.
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Intrepid Potash, Inc. Mine Operations
Wendover Facility
Product Muriate of Potash
Extraction Method Lake Brine Evaporation
Nameplate Capacity 120,000 tons of Potash annually
Effective Capacity 93,000 tons of Potash annually
Minimum Remaining
Reserve Life 30 Years
The Wendover Facility is located 122 miles west of Salt
Lake City, Utah and has been actively used for potash
production from naturally occurring brines for over 75 years.
Brine from a shallow potash containing aquifer is collected in
over 100 lineal miles of open ditches throughout the 88,000
acres of land controlled by Intrepid. In addition to the brine
that is collected in the shallow aquifer, there is a deep potash
containing aquifer 1,000 feet below ground. Intrepid has
drilled three wells, two of which were drilled in 2008, into this
deep aquifer to provide supplemental brine into the system.
Since acquiring the Wendover Facility in 2004, we have made
a number of process improvements including applying best
practices to increase volumes and efficiencies.
We pump the brine collected in the ditch system into an
8,000 acre solar evaporation pond to evaporate water and
precipitate salts. Over five billion gallons of brine are pumped
into the solar pond system each year. As the brine becomes
saturated with potash, it is transferred through a series of
smaller evaporation ponds into harvest ponds. When the
ripened brine finally reaches the harvest ponds, the ore (a
combination of salt and potash) precipitates onto the pond
floor. The remaining brine in the harvest ponds is removed
and the ore is harvested and transported by elevating scrapers
to the mill for processing. In the mill, the potash is separated
from the salt by flotation. The material is then dried, compacted,
and screened into standard product or compacted into a
granular grade of white potash. To produce Metal Recovery
Salt (MRS), which is a combination of potash and salt, the
ore from the harvest ponds is sent directly to the dryer to
be dried and screened. The final products are conveyed and
stored in bulk storage warehouses. From the warehouses,
potash and MRS are loaded directly into railcars or trucks
for shipment.
The left over brine, rich in magnesium chloride, is removed
from the harvest ponds and transferred into additional
evaporation ponds to concentrate further. Then, the brine is
transferred into storage ditches and lined ponds. From storage,
the magnesium chloride brine, which is used as a winter highway
de-icing product and also a dust control and soil stabilization
agent, is loaded into trucks or railcars for shipment.
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so there is more than just the goodness of your heart here.
Sid, don't think we've ever met. Do know that you are very pro salt flats racing and much involved with SCTA.
Don't want your toes stepped on or think that Mike's should be either. I've met him and it's been very helpful to me and others. Was last there in '10.
Everybody's business is down along with the racing organizations. Although, The tourist and gamblers that come through Wendover are plenty good for business ; they probably don't give a s hit about racing. those two groups don't get free camping in a museum lot that Crawford is promoting.( to a point) . I don't think they get late hours at the car parts store either. Maybe some kind of storage.
Does he really need our money?
My venting may be uncalled for. So is pis sing on him.
do not want this to turn into a any kind of squabble. You can PM me or call ~~ 216.990.8547. .
Unlike the pope , I can be wrong.
Apologizing now if I am ,
Franey
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To address the concern about who pays for fixing the problem IF Intrepid were to be shut down. Some of the information I received from the bonnevillelover@gmail.com email site included Intrepid's last few Annual Reports, which they have to file with the SEC. Public documents. In the Footnotes of the 2014 Report is a paragraph "Reclamation Obligations". It reads as follows:
"Our surface permits require us to reclaim property disturbed by operations at our facilities. Our operations in Utah and New Mexico have specific obligations related to reclamation of the land after mining and processing operations are concluded. The discounted present value of our estimated reclamation costs for our mines as of December 31, 2014, is approximately $22.0 million, which is reflected in our financial statements. Various permits and authorization documents negotiated with or issued by the appropriate governmental authorities include these estimated reclamation costs on an undiscounted basis. The undiscounted amount of our estimated reclamation costs for our mines as of December 31, 2014, is approximately $57.6 million."
So their Balance Sheet already has accrued the expected requirement to "reclaim" the area(s) they've been mining - namely the Bonneville Salt Flats. If they had to do this reclamation work today, at the several facilities, it would cost $57.6 million. But because that money won't be spent for anywhere from 30 to 100 years from now, its current value is the $22.0.
If they had to shut down at Wendover, they've got lots of cash available to pay for reclamation. Besides lots of cash in the bank, as shown on their Balance Sheet, they also have a huge credit facility, or bank borrowing line, of $250 million that has barely been tapped. They had NO DEBT until 2013 when they sold $150 million of senior notes, which they used along with other cash in their wallet to make some major capital expenditures in 2013.
They go on to say: "It is difficult to estimate and predict the potential actual costs and liabilities associated with remediation and reclamation, and there is no guarantee that we will not be identified in the future as potentially responsible for additional remediation and reclamation costs, either as a result of changes in existing laws and regulations or as a result of the identification of additional matters subject to remediation and/or reclamation obligations or liabilities."
I.e., cost of doing business, and they know it.
I agree with the notion that we might lose the salt anyway, if we do nothing, so why not push hard now.
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so there is more than just the goodness of your heart here.
Sid, don't think we've ever met. Do know that you are very pro salt flats racing and much involved with SCTA.
Don't want your toes stepped on or think that Mike's should be either. I've met him and it's been very helpful to me and others. Was last there in '10.
Everybody's business is down along with the racing organizations. Although, The tourist and gamblers that come through Wendover are plenty good for business ; they probably don't give a s hit about racing. those two groups don't get free camping in a museum lot that Crawford is promoting.( to a point) . I don't think they get late hours at the car parts store either. Maybe some kind of storage.
Does he really need our money?
My venting may be uncalled for. So is pis sing on him.
do not want this to turn into a any kind of squabble. You can PM me or call ~~ 216.990.8547. .
Unlike the pope , I can be wrong.
Apologizing now if I am ,
Franey
I was no more pi$$ing on Mike than he was pi$$ing on us, there are facts that needed to be included & thats what I did. I've known Mike since the late 80's at the Chevron & bear him no malice.
It's my understanding that Speed Week is the second largest cash cow for Wendover.
We should be operating on straight up truth here & that does not appear to have been the case for a long time in regards to our problem here.
That's why I found myself on the salt in a rain storm recently with a hunk of pipe, a broom stick & a GoPro.
I am very passionate about Bonneville, I live for it & that's the reason I came here in the first place.
Sid.
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BobD,
Does Intrepid as an LLC, have an out?
Thanks for your input.
Sam
#6062
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Intrepid is not an LLC - Limited Liability Company; they are a standard form corporation, incorporated in the state of Delaware. They state in their Annual Report that they are a subchapter C corporation subject to both federal and state income taxes. Even if they were an LLC, all of the company assets would be subject to claims, however assets of the individual owners would be protected - just as they are in a regular corporate form.
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I forwarded the petition link to Bloodhound SSC and Aussie Invader websites asking them to inform their supporters etc.
Mark Read at Aussie Invader has already responded that he will do that and put something on their Facebook page.
I also put a similar post on the GRRC ( Goodwood UK ) members forum.
The petition is open to overseas residents - just omit the zip code and verify/confirm when you get the email response.
If anyone is able inform significant groups of motor sport fans perhaps via newspapers or magazines this would help grow the numbers before the petition deadline of 10 September.
Richard
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Richard,
Next one is on me. :cheers:
Sam
#6062
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Nice request on Thumper Talk to support the petition...
http://www.thumpertalk.com/
How many other forms on the net, car/bike do we know of that have put out the word?
Sum
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I sent it down to Rosco McGlashan and the Aussie Invader and asked him to pass it on and around to folks he's in contact with.
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Ya'll make me proud.
It is this fellowship that convinced me to try.
Sam
#6062
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I am sure we are all concerned we have got less than 750 votes on the petition and a quarter of the time to the deadline has elapsed, with the target as 100,000 votes?
With typically over 500 entries at Speed Week surely each entry could email 5 family or crew members who have their own email address and would support the petition.
Then those crew members have family too - and so on?
Not suggesting we can achieve a chain letter but this may be a one-off chance that, in hindsight, people who didn't vote or didn't even know of the petition ( more likely ) may regret a lost opportunity...........
Richard
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The Bonneville salt flats are world famous and one of only two reasonably usable major land speed venues in the world. Combine that with the heritage of the American motor car, the evolution of the hot rod and Speed Week, an American icon that ranks on the world motor sport stage with the Indianapolis 500 and Le Mans.
An oil refinery where I carried out some machinery overhauls in the Bordeaux region of France was later closed down by the French government to protect the vineyards from risk of contamination. It realised which was most important for France’s heritage and future prestige and that it would have been unforgivable to lose a long term asset and national treasure for transient and relatively minor business interests.
On the same basis and as a priority the U.S. Government should be persuaded to step in urgently with a precautionary stop to brine removal and support a programme to return material that can chemically support renewal of the salt flats.
Good luck to those guys who are working with due diligence on this. Preservation of what you’ve got must surely take priority over the prospect of finding an alternative.
Richard
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The petition may not be getting the support it needs due to the broken link included.
Here is the link;
http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medialib/blm/ut/salt_lake_fo/planning/documents.Par.17457.File.dat/Intrepid%20EA.pdf
I think it makes clear that the Salt Laydown Project has not only failed in rebuilding the crust, it has actually accelerated the problem.
Please! Take the time and read the BLM's OWN WORDS!
Sam
#6062
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I have forwarded it and sent it to many on my mailing list who like cars/racing but have never been to the Salt. I have gotten messages back from five that they have done the same. I have gotten the petition from five different people but that's OK too. Just keep it rolling.
Doug :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
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Some folks may not care to take the time to read it.
Here are some verbatim from the BLM document;
The predicted +2 inches of thickness addition to the salt crust (Bingham, 1991, p. 435) as a result of the Laydown Project was not observed at any of the multi-year monitoring locations upon conclusion of the five-year experiment.
6.2 million tons of sodium chloride as human-made enriched brine was pumped back onto the Bonneville Salt Flats from 1 November through at least 30 April for five consecutive years.
4.0 ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACTS
UTU-087809-087818
UT-020-2006-002
24
3. During the same time period an estimated 4.2 million tons were removed by the production 3ditches leaving 2 million tons that went directly to the shallow brine aquifer
Salt Laydown: The impacts would be the same as described in the Proposed Action except for the fact that there would be no production monitoring approved and a material balance would not be calculated and the company would not be required to continue if they for business reasons decide it is not in their interest to do so.
Salt Laydown: The Alluvial Fan aquifer would continue to be pumped at the rate of approximately 1.2 billion gallons per year (Intrepid, 2008, p.72) the permit issued by the Utah Division of Water Rights allows Intrepid to pump 8.6 billion gallons per year. Based upon earliest data (Turk, 1969, p.77 ) and the information submitted by Intrepid Wendover in the mining plan in 2008, indicates there has been an increase in salinity in the Alluvial Fill aquifer from 8,200 ppm TDS to over 18,000 ppm (Intrepid, 2008,p. 8). Individual wells have not been tracked but, these figures are based on the average of all the wells. The effect of this pumping shows the Alluvial Fan aquifer is interconnected with the Shallow Brine aquifer and the pumping of the Alluvial Fan aquifer is drawing some of the brine from the Shallow Brine aquifer. As the Alluvial Fan aquifer becomes more saline, the company would have an increasingly difficult time using this water for the intended purpose.
AND BINGO! IN BLACK AND WHITE!
Salt Laydown: The water component of the shallow brine aquifer is thought to be recharged from direct precipitation and the minerals recharged from relatively slower processes, as brine is drawn off by potash extraction operation, the mineral concentration of the aquifer is slowly decreasing by the amount of production each year. Therefore by supplementing the mineral recharge only “as site conditions dictate (Intrepid, 2008, p. 94) the proposed action could eventually reduce the concentration of minerals in the shallow brine aquifer north of I-80. This could result in the leaching of more salt from the salt crust into the aquifer and reducing the size and thickness of the crust
Sam
#6062
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There was a song which said, daddy take us down to Murimber county, down by the green river where paradise lay, I'm sorry my son, but you're too late in asking, Mr peabody's coal train done hauled it away!
We can change a few words and march down to the Whitehouse and chant it. You never know what makes some of these power players tick.
[/quote]
Here are alternate lyrics that I wrote about a year ago:
An Intrepid Tale
Daddy, please take me to the Bonneville Salt Flats,
Where white ancient sea salt lies thick on the clay.
I’m sorry, my son, but you’re too late in asking,
Intrepid™ has stripped it and hauled it away.
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Very sad, but true :cry:
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Me too.
There was a song which said, daddy take us down to Murimber county, down by the green river where paradise lay, I'm sorry my son, but you're too late in asking, Mr peabody's coal train done hauled it away!
We can change a few words and march down to the Whitehouse and chant it. You never know what makes some of these power players tick.
I messed up the quote earlier today, did not show that I was quoting from Vinsky's earlier post. My apologies, Vinsky.
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"Where have all the Salt Flats gone?
Where have all the Salt Flats gone?
Long time ago?
Where have all the Salt Flats gone?
Gone to mining companies, every one."
Apologies to Peter, Paul, and Mary.
I think they'd approve.
Sam Dakin
#6062
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. . . and Pete Seger(sp?).
Don't know who wrote it.
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It is inappropriate to republish the works of others without EXPRESS consent.
(Mea culpa)
Sam
#6062
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. . . and Pete Seger(sp?).
Don't know who wrote it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Where_Have_All_the_Flowers_Gone%3F (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Where_Have_All_the_Flowers_Gone%3F)
Mike
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Thanx, Mike.
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It is a very sad day when you wake up and have to face the Facts head on
R.I.P. Bonneville Salt Flats
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It is a very sad day when you wake up and have to face the Facts head on
R.I.P. Bonneville Salt Flats
There's a difference between a wake and a wakeup.
What we're seeing today is the latter. If we act in one voice, I think the former can be deferred.
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1700!
And the XL Forum (http://www.xlforum.net/) is on board.
It's a H-D Sportster (and Buell, RIP) focused site.
Sam
#6062
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I'm a member on that site.
Good bunch of guys. :cheers:
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Thanks for getting this started Sam.
Sad little video...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhZMfpRkRCY
Notice the only white (sort of) is where they trucked in Salt at lands end. 9:45 in the video
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I think the white balance on that video is a little off. It's a camera setting that makes everything look like the camera has sun classes on if it's off. I would be willing to bet that all that salt doesn't look that brown. Not saying not brown at all , just not that bad.
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I think the white balance on that video is a little off. It's a camera setting that makes everything look like the camera has sun classes on if it's off. I would be willing to bet that all that salt doesn't look that brown. Not saying not brown at all , just not that bad.
Except that the salt at roads end is white, and so are the clouds.
JL222
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Not really, at about 2 minutes there is a white truck and a portojohn roof. Neither really look white. That much sun they should both be really bright.
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No, what is sad is that mis-information moves faster than truth.
The brown of the salt is not from Man, it was from Mother Nature when heavy spring rains moved dirt from the mountains to the salt flats covering them.
Also It looks like the flying camera needs it's white balance checked, because as a photographer I know that the salt blows out meters to extreme white or as we saw in the video a 'brown' cast.
And the dirt was covered over with a thin layer of salt, which makes it look like there is only a thin crust of salt left.
Please read all of Russ Ayers reports before yelling 'the sky is falling"
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Brown mud, white mud, mud on top of the salt, mud underneath the salt - there is more mud than salt.
I drove to the Flats to see through the hype and conjecture and can confirm Sid's findings. Didn't find much of the white stuff we like to race on!
Willi
Kraut Bros.
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wow finaly someone gets it. Too much mud on the surface of the salt. Its alot like beating a :dhorse: but hey everyone has their idea.
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wow finaly someone gets it. Too much mud on the surface of the salt. Its alot like beating a :dhorse: but hey everyone has their idea.
So, if Intrepid stopped tomorrow and no one was allowed on the salt, would it heal itself? If so, how long would it take?
If not, can man assist or are we just mucking with fother nature? I can go on with more questions if necessary..........
I don't know what the answer is, but I am afraid that time is a factor that man cannot manipulate very well and everything else he touches has unintended consequences.
John
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Willie, Crawford and Neilson.
All at odds.
We're tearing ourselves up.
Hope we all get together again sometime.
Stan
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Hmmm,
Thin Salt on top of the mud.
Seems like the Salt is trying to repair itself.
Can't be Laydown salt; the mud came after.
The buried crust just means Intrepid hasn't got it all. Yet.
Sam
#6062
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Sid's report and cores say there is "NO" F'in crust, so what is the mud supposed to be covering?
Ron
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The thin layer of salty-dirt-mud stuff (varies in thickness depending where you look) is on top of a hard salt crystal base that is not white but a kinda grey-ish-green color & that varies in thickness from about 1" to 2". Below that is the sloppy brine mud pudding type stuff that would swallow up your mother in law if you needed her gone. :wink:
As you can see, I don't know all the technical jargon for this $hit but most should be able to understand what I'm saying.
The last of the white top salt is mostly over in the Pit area & that is part of the drain field/pumping area & that extends from I-80 down by the plant, past lands end, through the pit area, down towards floating mountain then curves south towards I-80 again where the last Intrepid pumping station is located about 16 miles east of Wendover.
Sid.
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Hello All,
Found out about this earlier this morning when 'satan' posted it on the BritChopper site.
Signed immediately and am in the process of posting the details on all the forums I am a member of, all and everyone. If they relate to engines and wheels I am posting it there.
My daughter posted it on Guy Martin's facebook page (869,158) followers, the official fanpage of Suzuki Motor of America (1,951,523), Kawasaki USA (1,287,256), and Yamaha Motor Europe (1,185,097). If that lot don't get enough people signing the petition I don't know what will. Still going to post it on some more forums though, the more the merrier.
When I run out of forums, I am starting on motoring/motorcycle publications and any motoring/motorcycle organisations I can think of. Come on everyone, we ain't going down without a fight.
Don't forget, I come from the country that brought you 'The Charge of the Light Brigade'
For those of our American friends, think of 'Remember the Alamo'
Let's make the b*ggers sit up and take notice.
All the Best,
Rob54.
Blimey, just realised, this is my first post. Well if you do summat' make sure it's important, eh! (In homage to our Canadian brothers and sisters).
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Endeavor to Persevere is my motto. :evil:
96% of the Salt Flats crust gone.
Sam
#6062
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Endeavor to Persevere is my motto. :evil:
Chief Dan George in "The Outlaw Josey Wales" :-D :cheers:
Regards, Neil Tucson, AZ
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Hello all,
With the signatures total currently at 2,373 I have been trying to get more on board.
As it has been mentioned that a list of those contacted would be useful I provide the following, emailed today:
Motor Cycle News - A weekly paper
Bike - Magazine
Performance Bikes - Magazine
RiDE - Magazine
Classic Bike - Magazine
The Classic Motorcycle - Magazine
Classic Motorcycle Mechanics - Magazine
Back Street Heroes - Magazine
British Racing Drivers' Club - Motor Racing Organisation
Will be adding more to the list as and when I can.
All the Best,
Rob54.
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I can't possibly be the only person who has problems with the petition, can I? For something that we are trying to use as a frontline in this effort it is way too vague, gives no back up, no data, and calls for the all out shut down of a billion dollar a year plant. This will not happen. You can petition things all you want but if all we are supplying is a 2-3 sentence mission statement and a broken link. Even if there were to get enough signatures, if I was part of the government I would quickly shut it down. We do it all the time fore residential projects (I am a civil engineer and deal with angry neighbors all the time so that's where my opinion comes from). I do give you credit for sharing the link on here and social media but the people who could possibly use the data to make an informed decision don't have it at the click of a button. Can you modify the petition to give a clear summary of the studies you want to include? Can the petition be modified to back the work that Save the Salt is actually doing? Can it be modified to include links to studies that actually work? Can we form arguments that site actual laws or regulations with code numbers that we feel have been violated? Or are we just spinning our wheels with it?
If we can get a REALLY solid petition that media outlets can actually get behind we may actually have somewhat of a shot with it. As it is now, all I see it as is people complaining about something they can't actually change. I am sorry if this offends anyone but I will tell you right now that even though I signed it I know it won't go much further.
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You are not, see my earlier post which got merged into the combined thread.
One of the down sides of merging threads is you lose all context and the original chain of discussion, and make things darn near impossible to find at a later date.
It was originally posted on one of the petition threads:
http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,14015.msg280376.html#msg280376
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2500!
Keep 'em coming!
Sam
#6062
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2,755 people have signed the petition.
It expires today.
I will be starting a new petition and encourage everyone to post or PM their input.
Sam
#6062