Lectrons vs Injection at Bonneville

[besserspat]

Yep the speedweek is the goal , one of the 3 big events I want to be in, before I lose my "mojo"  

I was supposed to go last year but my work being directly related to how well car manufacturers do financially ,you will understand why I was not part of the speedweek last year  

[Beairsto Racing]

Welcome to the sport besserspat.

Regardless of which venue you choose to run or however you choose to fuel your engine, you will enjoy the support of a great group of land speed enthusiasts.

Its good to see another bike with some "older" technology. Horsepower is horsepower.

-Scott

[besserspat]

Thanks for all the good words, the LSR crowd seems quite different than the racing crowd I'm used to. Everyone I talked to so far are helpful and willing to share some "speed secrets". That must be one for the various reasons why people get addicted to LSR.

Most of my machines are "old school" and my 1340cc brick shaped, oil cooled LSR bike is no exception.

Thanks for the input guys.

Peter

[wobblywalrus]

Peter, what kind of carbs do you have now?  Are they the constant velocity types with the butterfly plate or are they slide carbs?

[Peter Jack]

Peter, what part of Canada? We're a rather wide country.

Pete

[besserspat]

Peter, what kind of carbs do you have now?  Are they the constant velocity types with the butterfly plate or are they slide carbs?

I never really used CV carbs on my bikes , they all have either MIKUNI RS, or FCRs. I know a good CV carb is more than adequate on the street since they improve rideability and throttle response.Are CV carbs a better choice at high altitude like Bonneville?

The motor has no carbs on it now, I had a set of Mikuni RS 38 on it when it was a "smaller" 1216 but since the motor has grown up to 1340 , many people told me to go with lectrons 40 (Drag racing crowd) and some to go fuel injection (techno turbo geeks)...I am lost now !

I am from Montreal Canada,but Im in Florida quite often too.

Both places are near sea level so I have no experience at high altitude.

[wobblywalrus]

The CV carbs on my Bonneville handle the daily changes in atmospheric conditions at Bonneville very well.  I do need to completely rejet if I want to run the ERC 110 octane leaded at sea level.  I need to go richer.  This is a pain.

Your questions about EFI vs carbs are similar to the questions I am facing for my racing program.  Yesterday we had our Truimph club meeting in Beaverton.  I asked a few questions.  This is what I found out.

The older Hinckley Triumph Bonnevilles have a sophisticated CV carb system.  The factory setup on my 2003 is about as good as bike carbs are.  The new Bonnevilles have fuel injection.  During the transition from carbs to EFI the engine remained the same.  The new EFI Bonnevilles produce more power, get better mileage, run good with a greater variety of fuels, and give better performance during differing atmospheric conditions.  These changes are noticeable.

I also learned that it is no simple matter to convert a carb Bonneville to EFI.  The wiring harness, electronic brains, and the entire fueling system, including the gas tank are different.  Advice is to buy an EFI Bonnie and to transfer my racing parts to it.

In previous years I had some exposure to EFI, and this are my feelings.  In racing, a good set of carbs and EFI are an even match if the carbs are set up perfectly for the throttle opening, fuel, and atmosphere.  The EFI has the brains to do this and that is all it thinks about.  It has anti knock sensors, can vary ignition timing and mixture ratios on the run, and do all sorts of other good things.  The rider or mechanic has to do a lot of this manually with a carb setup, between heats, races, or runs, and in addition to all of the other issues.  The problem with the manual method is not knowing there is a needed adjustment, making an error when doing the change, or not having the time to address the issue. 

My ambitions are to squeak the Bonnie into the 150 club before I get too old to race or go broke.  I will probably stay with carbs, but I want to learn EFI.  A serious old guy or lady, or a younger person with ambitions for records in top level classes, should start learning EFI.

Anyway, this is a long winded opinion from an older guy with a mild hangover and four functioning brain cells.  Have fun with your Suzooks.       

     

[besserspat]

EFI is the future , there is no doubts about it,  its effective and relatively simple to tune to a level of accuracy that is hard to beat with a carb.

But my concerns are more about fitting EFI to a motor that was not designed for that. fitting the TBs off a busa to my oil cooled lump is the easy part, the electrical, the sensors etc etc arent.

I want to run nitrous eventually, and EFi seems to respond very well to Nitrous with its real time adjustablility.

But maybe I should learn how to walk before running on the salt...

So I think I will stick to carbs until I get good , and if I really like it I can always find another project that has EFI right out of the box.

Now there is the question, should I stay with FCRs and Mikuni RS or venture in LECTRON land...

I want simple , easy to tune AND the best power out of my set up!

The motor is an oil cooled 1127 bored to 1340 suzuki.
head work , bigger valves, and race pipe (sidewinder).

cheers

[k.h.]

Some of the drag bike guys are switching to EFI, and their old Electron set-ups are on the used market.  Maybe check drag forums or Kawa sites, might save some money. 

[BTE]

As you are mainly looking at WOT hp then the lectrons will be hard to beat, they jet nicley, have a ton of air flow, and cost effective. ( I did application engineering with Lectron for alot of years, and have had quite a few records on the salt using them). There biggest drawback is they dont have bearings on the slides so they are stiff off idle until you overcome the idle Vac. on the slides. But you are not at idle very long on the salt
The nice benifit with EFI is that it will self tune for the altitude, however HP wise if you dont have a good set of Throttle bodies that flow well , they wont make the power of the carbs.
With either one EFI or Carbs, a good Lambda meter will help you a ton and is a great investment.

[wobblywalrus]

The CV carbs can be tricky to jet.  A main jet reading requires the butterfly plate to be wide open and there needs to be enough venturi vacuum to lift the slides completely.  We put it on a dyno, use a gas analyzer, and I look down into one of the velocity stacks to make sure the slide is completely up.   

[754]

 Well I certainly learned something today, did not realize that Bub is the only event at the flats, for a "run what brought ya there, a long distance" bikes.. if you are by yourself.

 Originally I wanted to run my Sohc CB 750 in sidecar class, but have not yet been able to.

 Not knocking FI but a lot of people just want to find out what their bike is capable of in present form.

 That said if you like tinkering,  and an interesting alternative, that is easy to work on.. I run Weber 40 DCOE's. They are actually pretty easy to work on, but some seem scared of them.

 I was lucky, had scads of jets when I got a running set. Just thought I would mention them, they do have some interesting features... also the only carbs I ever hear referred to as "the closest thing to fuel injection"

[Dakzila]

Well I certainly learned something today, did not realize that Bub is the only event at the flats, for a "run what brought ya there, a long distance" bikes.. if you are by yourself.

 Originally I wanted to run my Sohc CB 750 in sidecar class, but have not yet been able to.

 Not knocking FI but a lot of people just want to find out what their bike is capable of in present form.

 That said if you like tinkering,  and an interesting alternative, that is easy to work on.. I run Weber 40 DCOE's. They are actually pretty easy to work on, but some seem scared of them.

 I was lucky, had scads of jets when I got a running set. Just thought I would mention them, they do have some interesting features... also the only carbs I ever hear referred to as "the closest thing to fuel injection"

754,

Love the Webers 40's! I ran a set of them on my KZ1428cc dragbike in the late 80's. Very tunable carburetor and something different and out of the norm.

Buzz

[754]

Well they certainly have that classic Hot Rod look!!

 And  you can use em on almost anything.
 Last time I looked they were actually reasonable, about 400US for New ! , for one dual throat. Jetting and venturis add up. Plus you have to make a manifold.

 Myself I am still a carb guy, not about to switch..
 I do like certain things like 3 minute DRY jet changes,  3 minute venturi changes, ball bearing throttles with very light throttle effort.. etc..

[bak189]

754.....Bring your single stick Honda to the 2010 BUB Meet......with a sidecar attached......make a run
in the "Run what ya brung" or enter the outfit in the sidecar class and make a run for the dollars that will be in the sidecar only purse...