Is it as simple as this?

[fredvance]

That is just about the stupidest statement I have ever seen. Rules are the basis of our sport, they are the guidelines for safety and define the classes. Fred

[Ratliff]

Franklin,

Your posting of the definitions of wings, etc. from the dictionary have some value, however the rulebook in written in the language of the common man as is known in the sport.

It is our rulebook and our definition. If you disagree with a rule you are free to submit a change via the SCTA-BNI website.

Oh, sorry you must be a participating member first. My bad.

DW

Real racers look at rules the same way Homer Simpson looks at roads. They're just a suggestion.

What the f*** does that mean. Are you saying that if I show up at speed week without helmet supports that tech will let me run if I tell them I took the rule book as a suggestion?

There are other ways of getting the same result. In the links below you can see how John Stapp's helmet was strapped directly to the headrest of his rocket sled.

http://www.ejectionsite.com/stapp/17.jpg

http://www.ejectionsite.com/stapp/20.jpg

In the early nineties, I had a conversation with Stapp where he described how the helmet straps could be secured to a cable which in turn would be connected to a retractor mechanism at the other end. This would leave a driver's head free but, if the driver saw he was about he to crash, he could activate the retractor mechanism, pulling his helmet tight against the headrest.

[Ratliff]

That is just about the stupidest statement I have ever seen. Rules are the basis of our sport, they are the guidelines for safety and define the classes. Fred

Records are the basis of land speed racing. Records validate the rules. The rules are just there to establish a baseline of performance measurement so that one record can be compared against another. Rules cannot turn a meaningless record into a meaningful one.

Land speed racing is not pasteurized homogenized cookie cutter clone spec car racing like Top Fuel or fuel Funny Car, or Indy Car, or Formula One, or NASCAR.

Sir Malcolm Campbell spoke to the question of the meaning of record breaking in 1946 when, regarding his upcoming attempt with the first turbojet boat, he wrote, "Well, it goes rather deeper than the mere desire to set up a new record. Standing by themselves, these speed records may mean much or little, as the case may be. Of course, there is a great sense of personal satisfaction in setting a figure which challenges the opposition but, if that were all, I should without much hesitation say that the effort was scarcely worth the time, trouble and expense involving in building a world-beating car or boat or aeroplane. It certainly would not be worth while if the achievement did not constitute a landmark on the road of progress. Every time we set up a new record of speed, either on land or water or in the air, we have learned something which can be applied to development and have travelled another distance towards that relative perfection of the machine which is the goal of human endeavor."

Sir Malcolm Campbell set the LSR nine times and the WSR four times. He set the first 300 mph LSR, the last LSR at Daytona, and the first LSR at Bonneville.

[Dynoroom]

I suppose it wont be, but when I read the SCTA rule book I see that the G/GC record is 155.599 mph. Well, a stock Honda s2000 will go close to 160 mph. So if someone where to take a s2000; put in the safety equipment necessary; put on a hard top for the aerodynamics & clean up the rest of it as best you could; change the rear end to a quick change so it would qualify for the class; put on a set of headers & a high performance throttle body & remap the computer to take advantage of it: do the the other few things you would need to get the job done; would you not then have a car that would easily go over the old record? And by quite a bit I would think.

I would think the budget, including the purchase of the car, could be kept to about $25,000 if you did lots of the work and where careful with the purchasing.

And you could drive the car to Utah to boot.

Are these the silly ramblings by someone who is a non racer?

I see that the record for this class is 20 years old. Even the G/GT record is below 160 mph, and is also 20 years old.

I would like to see this thread get back on topic or risk being locked.

[canadianrocky]

I suppose it wont be, but when I read the SCTA rule book I see that the G/GC record is 155.599 mph. Well, a stock Honda s2000 will go close to 160 mph. So if someone where to take a s2000; put in the safety equipment necessary; put on a hard top for the aerodynamics & clean up the rest of it as best you could; change the rear end to a quick change so it would qualify for the class; put on a set of headers & a high performance throttle body & remap the computer to take advantage of it: do the the other few things you would need to get the job done; would you not then have a car that would easily go over the old record? And by quite a bit I would think.

I would think the budget, including the purchase of the car, could be kept to about $25,000 if you did lots of the work and where careful with the purchasing.

And you could drive the car to Utah to boot.

Are these the silly ramblings by someone who is a non racer?

I see that the record for this class is 20 years old. Even the G/GT record is below 160 mph, and is also 20 years old.

I would like to see this thread get back on topic or risk being locked.

I agree. So here it is. I sent an email to the rules committee for clarification and what I got back is that a Honda S2000 CANNOT be considered for /GC as it does not meet the specifications of a Gas Coupe. This is because Gas Couple must be a four seater car (as built by the manufacturor) and the S2000 only seats two. So, it can only be used in /GT (of the two options I presented, anyway)

The other clarification I wanted was,  can a Hardtop be used if it is an option on the car from the factory? I have not heard a reply on that yet.

Ok, so here is a further question. Engine swaps are allowed in GT as long as it is the same manufacturer. So if I can find a Honda F1 engine, can I use it? After all, it does say Honda on it. I imagine finding one is the stickler.

[Ratliff]

I suppose it wont be, but when I read the SCTA rule book I see that the G/GC record is 155.599 mph. Well, a stock Honda s2000 will go close to 160 mph. So if someone where to take a s2000; put in the safety equipment necessary; put on a hard top for the aerodynamics & clean up the rest of it as best you could; change the rear end to a quick change so it would qualify for the class; put on a set of headers & a high performance throttle body & remap the computer to take advantage of it: do the the other few things you would need to get the job done; would you not then have a car that would easily go over the old record? And by quite a bit I would think.

I would think the budget, including the purchase of the car, could be kept to about $25,000 if you did lots of the work and where careful with the purchasing.

And you could drive the car to Utah to boot.

Are these the silly ramblings by someone who is a non racer?

I see that the record for this class is 20 years old. Even the G/GT record is below 160 mph, and is also 20 years old.

I would like to see this thread get back on topic or risk being locked.

I agree. So here it is. I sent an email to the rules committee for clarification and what I got back is that a Honda S2000 CANNOT be considered for /GC as it does not meet the specifications of a Gas Coupe. This is because Gas Couple must be a four seater car (as built by the manufacturor) and the S2000 only seats two. So, it can only be used in /GT (of the two options I presented, anyway)

The other clarification I wanted was,  can a Hardtop be used if it is an option on the car from the factory? I have not heard a reply on that yet.

Ok, so here is a further question. Engine swaps are allowed in GT as long as it is the same manufacturer. So if I can find a Honda F1 engine, can I use it? After all, it does say Honda on it. I imagine finding one is the stickler.

Your car is a roadster. If Honda makes a hardtop version of the S2000 that would be a coupe. Hardtop four seaters are sedans, whether two door or four door.

This is what happens when rulesmakers, probably due to internal politics, start using a double secret form of English that no one else speaks.

A hardtop two seater is a coupe. A four seater is a sedan.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/coupe

Main Entry: cou·pé   
Variant(s): or coupe   \kü-ˈpā, 2 often ˈküp\
Function: noun
Etymology: French coupé, from past participle of couper to cut, strike
Date: 1825
1: a four-wheeled closed horse-drawn carriage for two persons inside with an outside seat for the driver in front
2usually coupe : a 2-door automobile often seating only two persons; also : one with a tight-spaced rear seat — compare sedan

http://dictionary.die.net/coupe

coupe
     n : a car with two doors and front seats and a luggage
         compartment

Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913)

http://www.yourdictionary.com/coup-e

coupé Definition coupé (ko̵̅o̅ pā′)

noun

a closed carriage seating two passengers, with a seat outside for the driver
in British railway cars, a half-compartment at the end, with seats on only one side

http://www.allwords.com/word-coupe.html

coupe
noun
an ice cream dessert; the glass it is served in
A car with two doors (variant of coupé)

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sedan

Main Entry: se·dan 
Pronunciation: \si-ˈdan\
Function: noun
Etymology: origin unknown
Date: 1635
1: a portable often covered chair that is designed to carry one person and that is borne on poles by two people
2 a: a 2- or 4-door automobile seating four or more persons and usually having a permanent top — compare coupe b: a motorboat having one passenger compartment

[John Romero]

Main Entry: cou·pé   Variant(s): or coupe   \kü-ˈpā, 2 often ˈküp\ Function: noun
1: a four-wheeled closed horse-drawn carriage for two persons inside with an outside seat for the driver in front

Well, this simplifies things greatly. Here we have been beating ourselves up trying to figure out all this when all we had to do was look for the horses!

[canadianrocky]

Your car is a roadster. If Honda makes a hardtop version of the S2000 that would be a coupe. Hardtop four seaters are sedans, whether two ..............................
2 a: a 2- or 4-door automobile seating four or more persons and usually having a permanent top — compare coupe b: a motorboat having one passenger compartment

They call it potato, you call it pootaato.

And I am going to call it whatever THEY call it as it is not my intention to get there and have anyone say, "Sorry Rocky, you cannot race today, because you built the car to the rules and regulations of the Meriam-Webster dictionary.

I am building a race car, not taking English 8 and I do not need a lecture on the proper use of the language of Shakespeare. Unless of course, Shakespeare is on the rules committee.

[Glen]

Is one of the crew members a pooper scooper, don't want Al Gore complaining about global warming or exhaust gasses and other horse crap issues. 

[Ratliff]

Your car is a roadster. If Honda makes a hardtop version of the S2000 that would be a coupe. Hardtop four seaters are sedans, whether two ..............................
2 a: a 2- or 4-door automobile seating four or more persons and usually having a permanent top — compare coupe b: a motorboat having one passenger compartment

They call it potato, you call it pootaato.

And I am going to call it whatever THEY call it as it is not my intention to get there and have anyone say, "Sorry Rocky, you cannot race today, because you built the car to the rules and regulations of the Meriam-Webster dictionary.

I am building a race car, not taking English 8 and I do not need a lecture on the proper use of the language of Shakespeare. Unless of course, Shakespeare is on the rules committee.

If the words being used are not meaningful to the world at large, then, yes, it would be just as valid to call it a potato record.

Just take a look at the images you get when googling the word "coupes."

When I google the word "roadsters" what I get are images of open top two seaters.

[John Romero]

Just take a look at the images you get when googling the word "coupes."

[Glen]

I think it's time to stop this topic. It's going to turn into a pissing contest and not what is wanted on the LSR forum. Any one else

[Ratliff]

Using the preautomobile age definitions, that photo shows a coupe drawn by a roadster. I'm not making that up.

[Seldom Seen Slim]

At risk of being accused of taking the topic back to the original -- there was an S2000 at Maxton a couple of years ago.  I don't remember speeds he ran nor the class he was in -- but he was there for a couple of events.  I know that he didn't run anywhere near 200 -- maybe the 150s, maybe less.  I don't know if I can access the run logs and such for a few years ago there, either, so can't back up what I remember with the facts.

But I'm not talking about horses or streamliners, at least. . .

[canadianrocky]

I think it's time to stop this topic. It's going to turn into a pissing contest and not what is wanted on the LSR forum. Any one else

But does that mean that the next thread I start wont get hijacked by Ratliff?