Bonneville 2-Club Motorcycle Minimums

[JackD]

The problem was they were both "ROOSTERING" and wern't doing a very good job. The only way to stop the fight was to remove the incentive from at least one side.
 A record is the fastest speed recorded for a class by the rules. Classes are made and dropped at the pleasure of the organization.
  A membership standsrd is the same and requires equal thought to hold it's value.
 Both organizations have suffered from various degrees of slappy and both still fight, but it is actually getting better.
 If it is allowed to wander the standards will soon get out of control.
 This is the part where I talk about the importance of steering corrections, power, and traction control unles you already got it.
 The Dirty 2 Club seems to do fine on their planet.
 Politics, business, and racers are tough when they are together and even tougher to keep apart.

[dwarner]

Keith has the right idea. There are some BNI records that are within 1 mph of the 200 club minimum. That's mighty close in my book.

[jimmy six]

Joe I'll throw something at you for your comparison. In 1953 there were 30 classes (I counted them out of the 1953 rule book) so a little over 10% ratio of classes made it to the 200 mph Club .
 
 In 2003 there were over 1600 classes and 35 went in that's just over 2%.
 
 In 2005 there will be almost 1700 classes an compare that to 1953: 170 to 180 would need to get in to reach the 10+%.
 
 Just info to stir the pot.
 
 PS: they had classes then that would never reach 200 so don't use that as an excuse.
 
 Choose a class no one would ever think you could do it and go 216...J.D.

[JackD]

I think you need to recount the classes.

[hawkwind]

Originally posted by Malcolm UK:
 
 
   
 
   
 
 
   
 
 The 200 Club have accepted into 'membership' other drivers too.  These thrust powered record holders and wheeldriven contenders are accepted, even though they are in non SCTA classes (Thrust team in '83 and '97) or set record speeds on tracks outside the USA (eg DMC at Lake Eyre, Australia).  
 
 I cannot see them turning away any valid outright record holder - on two or four wheels - powered through the tyres or not!

This is interesting , so would it hold true if an individule who for arguments sake , achieved an outright record ( depending on the meaning of "outright record") say 300+ mph on an open bike , using different rules to the SCTA would this be concidered for inclusion into the bonneville 2 club  or would this need to be the outright speed of any M/C  or would this theoretical case need to be using the SCTA rules as well ? just a thought

[KeithTurk]

I've always had a bit of an issue with them allowing folks into the Bonneville Two Club that didn't set a record at Bonneville...
 
 BUT there have been significant records set in LSR that the Board of the club felt deserved recognition and have accepted them as honorary members...  and since they have indicated they are honorary members in the membership list...I really think it's the right thing to do.
 
 The first guy to go 200mph...Sir Henry Seagraves and Sir Malcolm Campbell.. are just two great examples of records set that are significant to our sport.
 
 The first 300 on an open bike?  hmmm seems like it would be open to the board's discretion at this point, they have established the precedent.

[joea]

JD, I see what your saying....we
 need to get rid of about 1500 classes...
 
 since your in socal, and have been avidly
 an integral part of the scta for decades, can you
 get on that for us?
 
 Joe

[JackD]

A better way to chart the progress is to graph the number of entries that exceeded 200mph only and the number of 2 club additions.
 The classes below 200 are not in the mix yet.
 A * should be used for the entries that set a record in a class that is faster than another that got in the club with that slower number, but the new minimum is faster that what got the first entry in.
 That's a long sentence but not as long as the memories that are still around with new one's every day.

[aswracing]

Just out of curiousity, how were the pushrod gas class minimums determined? Specifically 2000cc MPS-PG (210) and APS-PG (220)?
 
 The power it takes to go these speeds with available fairings and the power capability of current pushrod motors on gasoline vs. their displacement are both well understood entities. Did they get considered when determining these numbers? It sure doesn't appear so. It really appears to be a guess, and a bad one at that.
 
 I'd like to suggest a process. Pick a hp/speed relationship for a really good fairing. I'm sure somebody will ante up the data, I will for the Buell RR fairing if you want. Pick a hp per ci relationship that represents where the really good builders are. Again, I'd be more than happy to help. Do some quick calculations and you'll have your speed capability. Someone will need to have their sh*t together, motor and fairing wise, to get there. Isn't that what the minimum should be?
 
 My calculator says 210 and 220 are out there. Question: how many over 200 passes on a pushrod gasoline normally aspirated motor of any size have ever been made? I mean, on a sit-on bike?
 
 I thought we had this discussion and resolved it last year, no? Why the change?
 
 The fuel and boosted numbers are big, too, but it's a whole lot harder to argue those, since a person can always put more to it, and the constraint tends to be the durability.

[JohnR]

Originally posted by jimmy six:
  Choose a class no one would ever think you could do it and go 216...J.D.

I'll second that!

[k.h.]

Model   CdA (FT2)   CdA (m2)   Notes
 Guzzi GP V-8   2.00   0.186   dustbin fairing
 RR1000           2.71   0.251   no turn signals or mirrors
 S1-Corbin   2.89   0.268   
 '98 GSX-R600   2.90   0.270   no front turn signals or mirrors
 GSX-R1300   2.91   0.270   
 RR1000           3.01   0.280   street trim
 '98 R1           3.05   0.283   no front turn signals or mirrors
 GSX-R750   3.06   0.285   no rider, turn signals and mirrors
 XX           3.07   0.285   
 ZX-11           3.22   0.299   
 '98 GSX-R600   3.22   0.300   stock
 RSV Mille   3.24   0.301   
 '98 R1           3.38   0.314   stock
 S2/S3           3.48   0.323   
 CBR600F3   3.50   0.325   
 Corvette   5.70   0.530

[jimmy six]

No Problem Joe; great idea...
 
 I'll be glad to campaign for 1500 less classes. Just like '53. No Bikes (got enough to run their own meet anyway), No Coupes except for competiton. No gasoline, No sport cars. That will do it.
 
 Perfect: Liners, Lakesters, Roadsters and a few Coupes...Sign me up....J.D.

[JackD]

But not the narrow one like that radical John Vesco. I know he just wants to start something.
 Why should we have all those classes when we are still figuring what a roadster should look like ?
 "Better is evolution, too much is polution."

[joea]

Thanks JD, your swell,  I asked for 1500 less
 classes....which is 150 more than 53....you
 come back with "just like 53 no bikes"....
 
 perfect......just real competitive hotrods....
 
 short lines....
 
 you even sacrificed all them guys that cant compete in those "original" classes,  no V4.
 X, XXO etc......
 
 Joe  

[dwarner]

Actually Joe they all ran together. Cubic inch breaks only. Then the flathead guys became afraid of the GMC guys and wanted their own class. Lets see what Jack has to say about this exclusive deal.