Author Topic: Electric Vehicles: Miles Per Gallon vs. Miles Per KwH  (Read 6147 times)

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Offline bubruins

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Re: Electric Vehicles: Miles Per Gallon vs. Miles Per KwH
« Reply #45 on: October 10, 2023, 08:28:14 PM »
The two parts about driving an EV that I really appreciate are stop and go driving and descending down mountains and hills. The stop and go with no transmissions, no shifting, no climbing through the gears every time will quickly make even the smoothest 10spd modern car feel like a dinosaur. Knowing the regen is putting power back in the battery when a gas car would be turning that energy into heat at the brake pad surface is really satisfying for me. Other than that it's just a modern, reliable car you don't have to worry about. The one pedal driving gets normal real quick.

Offline Seldom Seen Slim

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Re: Electric Vehicles: Miles Per Gallon vs. Miles Per KwH
« Reply #46 on: October 10, 2023, 08:49:54 PM »
"...one pedal driving..."?  'Splain, please?



I guess maybe I should mention that I've never looked in, much less ridden or driven, an EV.
Jon E. Wennerberg
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Offline bubruins

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Re: Electric Vehicles: Miles Per Gallon vs. Miles Per KwH
« Reply #47 on: October 10, 2023, 10:25:26 PM »
One pedal driving is basically where it does max regeneration every time you let off the accelerator. It makes it drive like a golf cart. You almost never have to push the brake pedal that activates the hydraulic brakes unless you are in a panic situation.

Offline PorkPie

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Re: Electric Vehicles: Miles Per Gallon vs. Miles Per KwH
« Reply #48 on: October 11, 2023, 06:46:36 AM »
Maybe some more informations on EV and what's about....as Jim showed some important points....and in the other hand, you can't get proper information about EV via media due to the lack of knowledge

some facts

about tire

- as Jim mention right, one of the issues are tires/wheels - especially size and material
- I could talk on Sunday with a specialist about the tire situation here in Germany
- it sounds that some brands in the USA having a restriction in the use
- here in Germany the EV comes with special EV tire, it's on the owner if he stays with that tire or he buy normal one when the original are gone
- all this EV tires having the same base
- tall, with a very low rolling resistance and mostly, narrow....build for lots of miles...the customer like to go 30-40 000 with them

- tall, isn't a issue, as the torque of an EV means with the first move 100 %
- low rolling resistance means special rubber compound !
- narrow reduce also the rolling resistance

- what means that for safety.....tall, hard rubber and narrow tires increase the length of breaking distance.....not very safety.....especially as an EV is much heavier than a old tradition car....and         
   weight increase the length of breaking distance
- this combination also reduce the safety driving in rain
- in other words, the customer accept the lack of safety, just to get more miles out of the kwh and saving on cost changing the tire not that often.....

- who cry loudest than when this thinking cause a incident....because it was not there fault to save money and safety on the wrong place....

- the load of an EV can't be used as a reason for so tires....as in the USA the SUV's are very the same weight....and they run with regular tires....old traditional cars became heavy in the last
  15-20 years and that without E.....

all that blabla from the brands about tires has to have a other reason than EV....may be it is the advertisment....if you drive a EV you can save money on tire....but not telling the lack on safety


something other, the main battery of an EV....means the one for the E motor

- first, safety....there are several reason why a main battery can explode or can get on fire
- if there was an issue during the production of the battery, every charge can cause a reaction
- if an EV has a incident or contact crash, the battery always can cause a reaction
- finally ageing and wrong charging can cause a reaction

- for all the possible reaction...means blow or fire....
- it means not that the battery explode or get on fire when the damage happens....after a incident, a bad charging...it could be up to six weeks that the battery explode or burns...
- that's the reason why an EV (or the battery alone) after a crash has to be in a quarantine box....this is a container full with water....and this for six weeks

currently the industry still has no concept to avoid the reaction of a main battery....as the numbers of possibility why a battery react is BIG.......this has something to do how a so main battery is built

also to view is the emission of a EV, especially here the main battery

- first of all, an EV runs only clean if the electric power which was used to charge the battery is clean....how much percent of clean electric power you got in the USA....in Germany they
  saying 40+ percent....which is a lie....from the place where they can produce clean electric power to the place where the power is used, they losing more than 50 percent of that....in other           
  words...finally 20+ percent....and thinking about clean electric power, it's maybe California which got a high percentage on clean power and also short distance to the user

- the most people are not aware, what it means to produce a main battery for an EV

- talking about size of a main battery....70-100 kwh....which is maybe the today average in an EV....to produce a so main battery....how much emission it creates????

- to produce a main battery in that standard size, the producer creates so much emission that a 180 ci diesel car can drive 100 000 miles.....than the diesel has produced the same amount on       
  emission....when the diesel goes further he starts to produce more emission

- but this number of 100 000 miles distance counts only if the electric power used to charge the EV comes from a clean electric power producer.....dirty electric power increase the distance....

- how many main batteries will go 100 000 mile (or more).......?

I will not talk about other enviroment destroying in South America and Africa for material which is necessary to produce this main batteries....this would be another long story.....
Pork Pie

Photoartist & Historian & 200 MPH Club Member (I/GL 202.8 mph in the orig. Bockscar #1000)

Offline bubruins

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Re: Electric Vehicles: Miles Per Gallon vs. Miles Per KwH
« Reply #49 on: October 11, 2023, 07:57:19 AM »
Tires seem to be softer compounds that are wearing out earlier. Less volume and stiffer sidewalls contribute to less contact patch. This is also a trend in gas cars.

In terms of fires, there are fewer incidents of fire in EVs than gas cars. See link I posted earlier. Fewer moving parts means you won't be replacing PCV valves or walnut husk blasting valves on an EV at 80k miles. Another likely cause of a fire in a crash is... gasoline. Lithium tends to not ignite as quickly, leading to greater safety.

Even the dirtiest coal plant power is still 3-5x cleaner than gasoline by the time you calculate energy to drive a mile. EVs dont lose 70% efficiency to heat at the car engine like all gas or diesels will. How much lead (pb) do we mine for batteries these days? Answer: almost none. We recycle from existing supply efficiently with core charges. Same will work for lithium, just on a larger scale.

Time will tell on EV longevity, but I suspect that most with 40kwh batteries or more will exceed 100k miles easily. Fewer moving parts and more knowledge about how to take care of them will help.

Offline manta22

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Re: Electric Vehicles: Miles Per Gallon vs. Miles Per KwH
« Reply #50 on: October 11, 2023, 01:04:25 PM »
DeWalt Battery Lawn Mower Catches Fire at Equip Expo (The Largest OPE Tradeshow in the world)

https://www.tiktok.com/@coppercreekcuts1/video/7242275122961222955?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc

Complete video: https://youtu.be/DyG-JjejJvM

It just keeps on burning! ...EVs dangerous.... nah!

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

Offline tortoise

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Re: Electric Vehicles: Miles Per Gallon vs. Miles Per KwH
« Reply #51 on: October 11, 2023, 01:09:35 PM »
I will not talk about other enviroment destroying in South America and Africa for material which is necessary to produce this main batteries....this would be another long story.....
That's good; Slim doesn't want us to talk about the environment.

Offline noboD

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Re: Electric Vehicles: Miles Per Gallon vs. Miles Per KwH
« Reply #52 on: October 11, 2023, 01:15:40 PM »
I have a dum question. The batteries are lithium, which is a metal. What burns so profusely? What chemical is there to burn or does the lithium actually burn like magnesium?

Offline manta22

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Re: Electric Vehicles: Miles Per Gallon vs. Miles Per KwH
« Reply #53 on: October 11, 2023, 03:01:02 PM »
Sodium, potassium, lithium... very dangerous metals. Burned lots of those in HS Chemistry class.I remember the violet flame of potassium and the yellow sodium flame.
Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

Offline JimL

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Re: Electric Vehicles: Miles Per Gallon vs. Miles Per KwH
« Reply #54 on: October 11, 2023, 06:32:30 PM »
Neil, quick clarify the data use question.  As I mentioned it is gathered to improve the perfomance of safety systems.  I only ever saw it used otherwise in 2 court cases where I had to give data defense due to suit by vehicle owner, and a case to support a SoCal police department who lost an officer to a red-light violator who hit the drivers door of the PD vehicle... a sad but interesting case where at fault driver's true speed data was confirmed by the frequency of the ABS control valves and the measured imprint fluctuation on the pavement.  Good old "basic math" wins every time.

It is too complicated and time consuming for law enforcement to actually bother with hundreds of millions of drivers.  The data is ONLY stored if the air bags fired.  It is NOT accessible as we cruise along.

I am glad I retired before the EV stuff got serious.  It is nice to not know enough to get into those conversations!  I have enough trouble just understanding my electric bicycles (fun stuff!)

Offline bob

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Re: Electric Vehicles: Miles Per Gallon vs. Miles Per KwH
« Reply #55 on: October 12, 2023, 06:09:53 PM »
energy cannot be created or destroyed , it can only be changed from one form to another -- Albert Einstein --  theres no free ride , we are all doomed .

Offline gowing

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Re: Electric Vehicles: Miles Per Gallon vs. Miles Per KwH
« Reply #56 on: October 12, 2023, 09:06:11 PM »
But it can be used more efficiently!
No one needs a 7.3 Powerstroke to run to the grocery store or a 0-60 in 2 seconds Tesla to go to work.

Isn't Porsche working on synthetic fuel?  If only they could get the price down.
No need to retool the worlds entire fleet of ICE vehicles, and there is already a distribution network in place.

Also... I heard that they have approved a lithium mine just outside of Wendover. 
Save the Salt


« Last Edit: October 12, 2023, 09:08:53 PM by gowing »

Offline noboD

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Re: Electric Vehicles: Miles Per Gallon vs. Miles Per KwH
« Reply #57 on: October 15, 2023, 04:58:03 PM »
So, I am still interested in learning from real owners. What is your personal plan when the warrantee runs out? With everything on the car controlled by the computer I would not give a wooden nickel for one without a warrantee to  cover repairs. Are they recyclable? I have "read" the batteries can not be. Is that true? In an interview with Musk he says all of them on the road can be upgraded to autonomous driving when it actually works. Who will pay for that?

Offline bubruins

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Re: Electric Vehicles: Miles Per Gallon vs. Miles Per KwH
« Reply #58 on: October 15, 2023, 05:29:38 PM »
I'm planning on turning it into the wife's next car in 5-6 years. No oil changes. All bulbs are LEDs. Set of brake pads goes 150k+ in most EVs. Maybe Cadillac will sell an interesting enough EV at that point. I've heard that modern cars of all types have 100 million lines of code to run them. Thats not an EV specific trend.

Batteries are recyclable:
https://youtu.be/s2xrarUWVRQ?si=T-eMinu7AvluzgRK

My near base model chevy bolt has the radar sensors, electric power steering and electric power brakes. It could, in theory, drive autonomously. Hopefully the savings in fewer accidents could help offset the tech costs. Friend of mine told me this morning they wrecked their new car while using their phone and driving this week...

Offline gowing

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Re: Electric Vehicles: Miles Per Gallon vs. Miles Per KwH
« Reply #59 on: October 16, 2023, 12:01:48 AM »
Friend of mine told me this morning they wrecked their new car while using their phone and driving this week...
Moral of this story...
Get off of your goddam phone and pay attention to what you are doing.!