Author Topic: Electric Vehicles: Miles Per Gallon vs. Miles Per KwH  (Read 6003 times)

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Offline MAYOMAN

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Re: Electric Vehicles: Miles Per Gallon vs. Miles Per KwH
« Reply #60 on: October 16, 2023, 08:10:17 AM »
BUBRUINS - thank you for that video. My 2020 Leaf EV battery warranty is 8 years or 100,000 miles. Replacement for the 40kWh battery, including labor, is $6500 to $7500. I usually trade in my cars at 6 years. That would likely be 72,000 miles for my normal driving. I traded-in my 2014 Leaf EV on my 2020 Leaf. Battery capacity decreases annually, but is expected to be at least 75% at 100,000 miles. Okay for me.
Now, how do we power the ultimate electric wheel-driven land speed record vehicle? Battery, fuel cell, capacitor?
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Offline Lemming Motors

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Re: Electric Vehicles: Miles Per Gallon vs. Miles Per KwH
« Reply #61 on: October 27, 2023, 03:47:51 PM »
Recently moved back to NZ and building a house; installing solar and a battery. Not to go tree hugging (though I do like trees) but to reduce our utility bills in retirement (i.e. cap-ex while working to offset low income in retirement). Super insulated house, water recovery etc. Grid lite.  ROI was not a consideration but when we recently bought Tracey an EV; Opel Mokka compact SUV (think nicer Buick Encore) for mostly around town running the solar equation improves dramatically. 

We also run a petrol Honda station wagon, retromodded Morris Minor pickup (1973) and a soft top Toyomotor MR2 (from my dad). And one day a G/GL but that's still a work in progress, sigh.

For me the answer to the original question is horses for courses.

For every negative EV argument there is a forgotten petrol equivalent, or it just doesn't come up because they are so embedded in our culture. In the US gas is still so cheap that argument is hard to make. For me in NZ it is USD6.50 a gallon (the 3.785 litre gallon). Would that cause someone in the US to consider their choice of car? Would one still use the RAM 3500 to go fetch a gallon of milk at the local shop?

On a recent 260 mile return trip, starting from full, using public chargers and touring at the holiday destination $ per mile was 90mpg equivalent. However, the Opel has a relatively small range (didn't need the bigger battery pack day to day) so we had to plan a bit and stop for lunch, take the dog for a stretch etc. while it refuelled to around 85%. That was enjoyable but a 1,000 mile cross country on a mission, no way. The charging network here is growing; 1.3% of cars on the road in NZ are now electric (about double the US % excl. Ca.) and the chargenet app tells you the status and location of chargers so you can aim for one not in use or nearly complete and, theoretically, not queue so much. Tesla chargers exist but not overwhelmingly. Most EVs are Chinese here. Europe and the US have given them all their IP and effectively invited them to take over the world markets. Taiwan is next, there go the microchips.

The counter arguments are interesting and I am no apologist for the choice of car but take tires - does anyone even consider the cost / wear of say an F350 to a Colorado. Same with range. Sure the govt is going to slap a road user charge on EVs soon (as petrol tax revenue declines) but for our personal motoring week to week its costing nothing in energy input since we will be charging at home, off solar, or the free two hours from the leccy company every night. Around 80% of NZ's power generation is renewable, so idling hydro then ramping it up is apparently more expensive than giving it away, for now.

The EV is easy to drive but it is a utility choice, not 'I want to go for a drive for fun' vehicle. Gets off its r's okay. I suspect some of the batshit crazy hp EV's might be a laugh.

Battery tech and management is improving all the time. I expect the residual value will be appalling. Throw in some hills, turn on the heater, put your foot down and watch the projected range drop sharply. Is it the future or a means to improve electric motors and battery tech; towards hydrogen, rubber bands, hamsters in a flywheel? Hard to tell.

Would I but another one, yes, but preferably something a bit cute / quirky / amusing - have a look at the Evetta and tell me that wouldn't put a smile on your face every time you went to the shops. I watched a doco on the development of the Jag iPace and quite fancy one of those too. And yes, all my taste is in my mouth.

John
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Offline noboD

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Re: Electric Vehicles: Miles Per Gallon vs. Miles Per KwH
« Reply #62 on: October 27, 2023, 04:16:44 PM »
Please explain the " leccy hours."

Offline Lemming Motors

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Re: Electric Vehicles: Miles Per Gallon vs. Miles Per KwH
« Reply #63 on: October 27, 2023, 04:21:35 PM »
Sorry; leccy = electricity. Some of the power supply companies have a period of free electricity late evening (say 10pm till midnight) . I have a friend whose house battery management system uses the battery for the evening meal etc. 'knowing' it can recharge from the grid and be full for breakfast use. I guess the free period is an incentive to swap to that company - do your clothes washing after you have gone to bed sort of thing. It probably helps balance the grid demand too. As more people install storage batteries I can see that perk being discontinued.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2023, 04:27:22 PM by Lemming Motors »
A Bonneville Lakester please barman.
Certainly sir; a lick of salt, a sip of gas and a twist of Lemming. More Lemming sir?
Just a squeeze.

A Squeeze of Lemming it is sir.

Offline noboD

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Re: Electric Vehicles: Miles Per Gallon vs. Miles Per KwH
« Reply #64 on: October 27, 2023, 06:12:34 PM »
Thanks.

Offline desotoman

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Re: Electric Vehicles: Miles Per Gallon vs. Miles Per KwH
« Reply #65 on: October 31, 2023, 11:12:06 AM »
Interesting article that was just posted yesterday on Electric Vehicles. Titled: Texas Public Policy Foundation Unmasks the True Costs of Electric Vehicles.

https://californiaglobe.com/fr/texas-public-policy-foundation-unmasks-the-true-costs-of-electric-vehicles/

Tom G.
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Offline tortoise

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Re: Electric Vehicles: Miles Per Gallon vs. Miles Per KwH
« Reply #66 on: October 31, 2023, 12:34:20 PM »
The TPPF is an oil industry funded propaganda organization. Their math is highly questionable. What jumped out to me at first glance is including CAFE standards as a major part of the cost of the EV transition.

Offline Stainless1

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Re: Electric Vehicles: Miles Per Gallon vs. Miles Per KwH
« Reply #67 on: November 01, 2023, 11:16:40 AM »
The devil you say....  :evil:


OK Tortoise, that was your 666 post
 :cheers:
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Online manta22

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Re: Electric Vehicles: Miles Per Gallon vs. Miles Per KwH
« Reply #68 on: November 01, 2023, 01:45:09 PM »
The devil you say....  :evil:


OK Tortoise, that was your 666 post
 :cheers:
:roll:
Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

Offline WOODY@DDLLC

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Re: Electric Vehicles: Miles Per Gallon vs. Miles Per KwH
« Reply #69 on: November 01, 2023, 03:20:07 PM »
The devil you say....  :evil:


OK Tortoise, that was your 666 post
 :cheers:
Good thing it wasn't posted on Halloween!  :evil:
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Offline tortoise

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Re: Electric Vehicles: Miles Per Gallon vs. Miles Per KwH
« Reply #70 on: November 01, 2023, 03:33:10 PM »
I would like to apologize for any hexakosioihexekontahexaphobic episodes I may have inadvertently provoked.


Online manta22

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Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

Offline Lemming Motors

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Re: Electric Vehicles: Miles Per Gallon vs. Miles Per KwH
« Reply #73 on: November 03, 2023, 11:58:49 PM »
Just read this on the interweb - could anyone out there who can spell kWh comment / debunk, evaluate please.
If this is remotely accurate what does that do to gas mileage if you gave those kWh worth of miles to an EV and took them off the gas mileage range.

Estimates suggest 4.5kWh of energy is needed to refine one gallon of petrol.
A Bonneville Lakester please barman.
Certainly sir; a lick of salt, a sip of gas and a twist of Lemming. More Lemming sir?
Just a squeeze.

A Squeeze of Lemming it is sir.

Offline tortoise

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Re: Electric Vehicles: Miles Per Gallon vs. Miles Per KwH
« Reply #74 on: November 04, 2023, 01:17:42 PM »
This is not a very useful bit of information, if it's true.
 
A Tesla Model 3 mid-size sedan is rated at 4.5 M/kWh. That's 22.2 kWh per 100 miles.

A typical gasoline midsize sedan gets maybe 30 mpg. That's 3.3 gallons per 100 miles.

That's some useful information, if you know your cost of gas and electricity.

So using that factoid, energy use refining gas is 14.9 kWh per 100 miles. But so what?  This tells us nothing about the total energy cost to deliver that energy in either form to our gas tanks or batteries, or whether said energy comes from clean or dirty sources, or the total carbon emissions per mile of vehicle use.