land speed surface hypothetical

[Seldom Seen Slim]

MM:

In re the #999 Ford Fusion -- the number swap was quite a subject of discussion here and at the Salt last year.  Sam Wheeler, of the E-Z Hook bike 'liner, holds 999, and was asked by Ford if he would yield it for this Fusion's attempts.  He did, they ran, and now (I presume) Sam has full use of the number once again.  But yes, there was talk of the history and meaning behind the new Ford running with that number.

[JB]

Didn't Henry Ford set an early record running a model T or Model A on the ice?

91.37 mph, Lake St. Claire, 1904.  The Ford "Arrow" was not a production car, but was similar to #999 that Barney Oldfield raced.  The "T" wouldn't appear for another 4 years.

I found it interesting and sad that Ford used #999 last year on their hydrogen Fusion, and that only a hand full of true race fans ever made the connection.  Nobody in the press caught it, and even Ford's own PR folks didn't seem to realize the symbolism of the number, or that it was a nod to an early chapter in Ford's racing history.

Ford definately knew and included this in their marketing material.  I am sure that the car is on some kind of a tour and there will be placards with comparisons of the milestones being broken.  
Ford 999 Vehicle Facts:


Year: Originally constructed in October of 1902.
Designer: Henry Ford
Drivers: Barney Oldfield, Harley Cunningham, Tom Cooper, & Henry Ford
Engine: Inline 4 cylinder
Displacement: 18.8 litres (1155.3 ci) - 7.25" bore & 7" stroke!
Horsepower: Approximately 50
Cost: $5,000 (a considerable sum in 1902)

[Milwaukee Midget]

JB and SSS

I appreciate your insights into this - Kudos to Sam for being so generous with his number - I've no doubt that salt racers understood its significance.

[fastesthonda_jim]

I Know it may not suit you cold weather types, but I have heard that NASA will rent their runway at Cape Kennedy for $5000 per day.  Looking at it with Google Earth and it looks to be about 18,000 feet of usable space about 200+ feet wide. 

Now if dragsters can do 300 in the 1/4 (yes with traction compund and ridicuilous HP) someone should be able to do 400-500 in a mile.

[1212FBGS]

hummm there may be a problem with the FAA....lets figger this out 5G a day times 2 (one day for set up and teck as well as course walk and prep and 1 day for the race) 3g for insurance and 2g for people, support and logistics...thats 15g..devided by 60 entries thats $250 per entry...oh wait i forgot trophies and awards....hummmmm

[JackD]

The FAA has no jurisdiction over the uses of an aircraft runway on a military base,
Edwards is another example of groomed concrete and has already been used for LSR with a kilo and a mile, surveyed, pinned, and documented.

[fastesthonda_jim]

Well whatrwewaiting fir?  Let's go use Edwards!

Oops, I fergot.  It's a gument thing.

Sorry.

[Malcolm UK]

15g for a multi vehicle event! A bargain.

In the UK it will cost an individual about 20g US $ equivalent to run one day of an official speed record attempt on an airfield. 

The main thing is that the USAF have surfaced some fine runways over here - top specification, but mostly less than 11,000 feet. 

Malcolm

[Carl Johansson]

Well whatrwewaiting fir?  Let's go use Edwards!

Oops, I fergot.  It's a gument thing.

Sorry.

Go back and look at the discussion about Jesse James,  and his Belly Tanker that ran at Edwards.  That will give you a clue about what we are up against in trying to get Edwards opened up for land speed trials.

carl "are you ready for another alternative?" Johansson

[JackD]

The James event is not representative of the legitimate LSR use of the concrete runway at Edwards.
 While it was allowed to get out of hand, did nothing more than teach the hosts to be more responsible in the future.
The proper use of the surface for speed attempts, predates that stunt quite a bit, and only served to better educate the people that manage the use of the facility.
The right people doing it, do it right.
Their mission at Edwards is R+D, and it is a business.

[Ratliff]

For the purpose of the really fastest vehicles, as loose, and rough as it might seem, only a natural surface has been proven suitable.
Man made surfaces, to date, have at least a "swim" in them that does not work well.
The longest concrete runways for example also are poured in panels that tend to erode over time in the middle and stay higher on the edges, creating a repeated bump.
Surfaces like asphalt also react to temperature changes that cause it to expand and contract , regardless of the original surface conditions.


 

Fastest speed run on the Mulsanne straight was over 250 mph, and that was BEFORE they flattened the hills.

[maguromic]

Now that is a track!  They had to put the chicanes in because the cars were so fast at the end of the straight away and couldn’t make the turn resulting in going of the track and into the trees at the end.  They may have removed the trees also, but when we were there 20 years ago the trees were definitely there.

[Ratliff]

In 1987 at the Fort Stockton test track, driving the Oldsmobile Aerotech streamliner Indy car through the flying mile, A.J. Foyt set a record of 267.399 mph with a best one-way speed of 278.357 mph. Outside of a dragstrip, these are, to the best of my knowledge, the highest speeds ever run on pavement by a piston engine wheel-driven car.

[Ratliff]

In the mid thirties, the Germans built a seven mile straight stretch of autobahn for use in an attempt on the LSR by the Mercedes-Benz Type 80 (T-80) streamliner. Unfortunately, Hitler invaded Poland when the T-80 was still about a month away from road trials, but earlier the autobahn course had been used by the Mercedes-Benz and Auto Union grand prix teams for setting class speed records through the flying kilo. The best one-way speed during these trails was 271 mph.

The specifications for the T-80 were 19 square feet frontal area, 6,380 pounds dry weight, and 3,000 horsepower at 3,200 rpm (projected). Other features of the T-80 included direct drive with a lock-up centrifugal slipper clutch and inverted wings.

Calculated performance for the T-80 at 3,000 horsepower was 373 mph after 3.7 miles of acceleration. The brakes were designed to stop it from 373 mph in 25 seconds in 1.4 miles, an average deceleration rate of .68g.

[Ratliff]

We do have some input regarding the question.
Back in the early 1990's we were running at around 160mph at Bonneville with our sidecar.
(note a sidecar will always have a traction problem with one corner driving)
We shipped the outfit to Europe where we ran on asphalt........same Bonneville gearing........ran
in the high 180mph........Traction....Traction.......
Traction................

Pavement has about double the traction of salt.