land speed surface hypothetical

[Seldom Seen Slim]

Mark, I won't promise -- but Nancy and I have watched ice racing before, and if the trip is within the bounds of reason -- we might just call your bluff.  We've got a local that's quite active -- maybe I could sweet-talk him into letting me take one of his lesser steeds and go for a ride, too.

If you were serious -- and if we can fit it into Nancy's work schedule -- yeah, give me the details.

For those of you that haven't seen bikes on the ice -- well, you've seen serious bike racers on pavement with knee dragging and the bike 60 degrees from vertical -- think what it'd look like if the bike had big-ass studs/nails sticking out of the tires at all angles so tilting to about 80 degrees is possible.  Yee-hah.

[Milwaukee Midget]

Despite Stainless' potential Powerball winnings, and Sumner's charming ability to attract angel benefactors, (hey, it's all hypothetical, right? - although I did send Sum a buck for his spreadsheets . . .) would such a surface be safe?  Might too much traction actually create a situation where the slightest steering correction be amplified?  There's give on salt and sediment that you don't have on tarmac or concrete.  The potential for better speeds would probably be there, but you could wind up with so much traction that it might be unforgiving at speed.

Just a thought - I'm still a newbie - what do you folks who've driven the lakebeds and then raced at the Texas Mile and Maxton think?

[wolbrink471]

Some video of a friend riding on the ice trying a 'new' stud type

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDVddbF7u5A&feature=related

It feels like Valentino Rossi drifting both wheels through the turn!!



and yes sometimes....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYhQ-N6veIU&feature=related

this a great video clip, sorry about the f-bomb at the end



and one more at the very very end of the season, please don't call PETA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVwRSu7Nmhw&feature=related



Mark

[JackD]

The tubers on rails with NOS in the tunnel would have the best chance to go fast.
 The stopping method would save a lot of down time and keep the lines short.
The bikes would again have the advantage because you could run 1 on each rail.
It is understood the rulers would have line privileges.
I think it might not only work , but get wide support.

[Dean Los Angeles]

Unlimited traction with the spikes!

How long would it take for the Zamboni to do 10 miles x 1 mile?

[F104A]

   Believe it or not, we (the North American Eagle team) have looked into running
the Eagle on Cold Lake, Alberta. The Canadian Air Force used to use the lake as
a landing area in mid winter. In fact they were F-104's. I think the lake is something
like 32 miles long and about 10 wide. If all the conditions are right, we figured it
would be a good place to go really fast...........Ed

[Milwaukee Midget]

How long would it take for the Zamboni to do 10 miles x 1 mile?

The model 545 Zamboni (a registered trademark, not to be used as a generic term for ice surfacing machine) can surface the rink at the Bradley Center in Milwaukee in three minutes.

The surface area of a hockey rink is 16831.25 sq feet.  Divided by 3, we get 5610.4 sq ft/min.

The proposed ice surface, 1 mile x 10 miles, is 278,784,000 sq ft, so our calculation is
278,784,000/5610.4=49690.57 minutes, which is 49690.57/60=828.17 hours, or 828.17/24=34.51 days.

Today is the 16th of February - if we hurry, we could be ice racing on March 21st -

Which is, of course, the second day of Spring.

[JackD]

With a small modification to the wheels to maintain directional stability, the frozen lake sounds like the hot ticket.
Suitable weather and surface conditions would be actually more predictable.

NOTE: Tell the Green kid, the train races are not the same without him.

[Milwaukee Midget]

With a small modification to the wheels to maintain directional stability, the frozen lake sounds like the hot ticket.
Suitable weather and surface conditions would be actually more predictable.

 

I wish I could agree with you, but on a lake large enough to do what's being contemplated here, you'll have ice heaves, cracks and thin spots.  A lot of lakes are spring fed, so you're constantly percolating water under the ice.  For a long run, you'd have to be in the middle of a lake, and that's where the ice is thinnest.

Small circle tracks are close enough to shore that the ice is solid, and thus ice racing bikes and cars on a 1/4-mile circle works.

Predictable weather?  I'm currently receiving rain on top of 12" of snow which will change to sleet at noon, and then 3 more inches of snow again this evening.  Slim's been pounded harder than we have, and you'd actually have to plow snow off of the lake to get to the ice to race! 

I'll take a sombrero at Bonneville any day.

[JackD]

The cat rigged ice sail speed people know how to do it.

[Peter Jack]

Lakes on the Canadian prairies feature ice that's a minumum of 3 to 4 feet thick and often more. On Lake Winnipeg you could literally go for several hundred miles in a straight line. The only thing you'd really have to worry about is snow removal and probably crowd control. What's a little cold weather? Look at a map. It's a big chunk of frozen water.

Pete

[JackD]

A jet dryer type of machine can really groom an ice area with snow a lot faster than a Zamboonie.
Don't ask me how I know, it's business.

[Milwaukee Midget]

Didn't Henry Ford set an early record running a model T or Model A on the ice?

91.37 mph, Lake St. Claire, 1904.  The Ford "Arrow" was not a production car, but was similar to #999 that Barney Oldfield raced.  The "T" wouldn't appear for another 4 years.

I found it interesting and sad that Ford used #999 last year on their hydrogen Fusion, and that only a hand full of true race fans ever made the connection.  Nobody in the press caught it, and even Ford's own PR folks didn't seem to realize the symbolism of the number, or that it was a nod to an early chapter in Ford's racing history.

[wolbrink471]

The cat rigged ice sail speed people know how to do it.

YEAH! YEAH! YEAH!

flat on your back
8 inches off the ice
zero feeling in your frozen feet, while fingers are sweating from holding on to the main sheet
the blades 'running' across the ice and roaring loud enough to make your ears ring
faster
faster
faster
then the windward blade starts to fly
everything gets a bit quieter, but then your 'eyes' start to ring from 'speed'

the best, really the only way to stop is either to coast for 15 miles or jibe the sail and hockey slide into the wind.

no brakes and steering with the motor/sail!

as a thirteen year old it might be the perfect introduction to the old saying, "if everything seems under control, you aren't going fast enough!

Mark

[JackD]

SEE ?
There ya go.