land speed surface hypothetical

[woz]

I have often contemplated what kind of speed increases would be possible from a land speed vehicle (of any category) if a venue existed like Maxton but much longer?  The ability to put power to the ground seems to be the limiting factor from what I know - which isn't all that much except for my drag racing experience. 



Thanks,

Woz 

[JackD]

For the purpose of the really fastest vehicles, as loose, and rough as it might seem, only a natural surface has been proven suitable.
Man made surfaces, to date, have at least a "swim" in them that does not work well.
The longest concrete runways for example also are poured in panels that tend to erode over time in the middle and stay higher on the edges, creating a repeated bump.
Surfaces like asphalt also react to temperature changes that cause it to expand and contract , regardless of the original surface conditions.


 

[Sumner]

I have often contemplated what kind of speed increases would be possible from a land speed vehicle (of any category) if a venue existed like Maxton but much longer?  The ability to put power to the ground seems to be the limiting factor from what I know - which isn't all that much except for my drag racing experience. 



Thanks,

Woz 

I wouldn't question if a surface at least as smooth as the salt could be prepared, but the safety factor.  On the salt or dirt there is quite a bit of usable real-estate off to the sides of the course.  If you had pavement even a couple hundred yards/meters wide how would you transition to something on the sides of that that would be maybe 1/4 mile wide on both sides that could offer some degree of safety to a 300-500 mph vehicle that had gotten off course for whatever reason??  It seems to me that if that was dirt/gravel or whatever that when the vehicle left the pavement and transitioned onto that surface what would be the consequences as it would be very hard to make them the same level and also so the change in surface makeup (friction coefficient) would not upset the vehicle.

This is just a gut thought,

Sum

[Seldom Seen Slim]

What we need, then, would be a piece of blacktop pavement (no seams) at least ten miles long by one mile wide, with wider being preferred if available.  No natural obstructions for at least another mile in any direction from the perimeter of the pavement.  Grind the pavement at least a few inches down every few years and resurface to minimize the effects of aging.

There's nothing like that around here, darn it.  Sum -- you're in the neighborhood of that kind of empty real estate -- maybe you can find an angel benefactor that'll buy and build this venue for us.  I'll wait to hear when the first event is scheduled.

[bak189]

We do have some input regarding the question.
Back in the early 1990's we were running at around 160mph at Bonneville with our sidecar.
(note a sidecar will always have a traction problem with one corner driving)
We shipped the outfit to Europe where we ran on asphalt........same Bonneville gearing........ran
in the high 180mph........Traction....Traction.......
Traction................

[Dean Los Angeles]

a piece of blacktop pavement (no seams) at least ten miles long by one mile wide

Anybody want to put that out for bids?

Option: Convincing argument why the government REALLY needs to build it, and abandon it in a few years.

[wolbrink471]

As I walked into a 'Wally World' a week or so ago, I noticed they had a sneaker donation box....maybe we all could save old street tires and chunked knobbies and then grind them up into a composite 'race surface' just like Nike does with your old sneakers!

 

Mark

[Stainless1]

What we need, then, would be a piece of blacktop pavement (no seams) at least ten miles long by one mile wide, with wider being preferred if available.  No natural obstructions for at least another mile in any direction from the perimeter of the pavement.  Grind the pavement at least a few inches down every few years and resurface to minimize the effects of aging.

There's nothing like that around here, darn it.  Sum -- you're in the neighborhood of that kind of empty real estate -- maybe you can find an angel benefactor that'll buy and build this venue for us.  I'll wait to hear when the first event is scheduled.

SSS, you looking for a racing surface of something to be seen from space    10 miles X 200 feet would be plenty, and a clear 1/4.  Still just a pipe dream, still probably visible from space.  It looked like level ground was a premium at Sum's, I would suggest middle America, some place flatter than a pancake...  Kansas!  I'll get started right after I win the largest powerball lottery in history... 
In the mean time, see ya on the salt 

[JackD]

Sit down Bob, we are talking really fast here.  
Slim, what are we going to do to keep the asphalt or any other applied surface all the same temperature ?
Kent and Randy will remember the winter hump and summer dip in the left lane at Carlsbad as the water table came and went.
Also, watch an in car camera shot from something as slow as a NASCAR on the best oval track that can  built and then report back.

[Seldom Seen Slim]

The heck of it is, we've got the correct topography available up here in the U.P.  There's a bit of road going east-west across the center of the peninsula that's known as "The Seney Stretch", running from Shingleton on one end to Seney on the other.  it's about 23 miles long and flat and straight -- and yes, Bob, quite visible from space.  It's in a swampy part of a national forest.

I didn't mean, in my earlier post, that such a strip of pavement might exist.  I meant - just like Stainless said -- someone who has mega-mega bucks to spare could afford to build it.  And Jack, you may be right that the many variables such as temperature or even weather from one end to the other would be of concern.  But if we're building a perfect racing venue and money's no problem, let's at least thread some piping under the track surface to circulate something to keep the temperature as constant as possible.

Finally -- there are areas TODAY that fit the need perfectly -- frozen lakes.  I don't think they'd be much good in the traction department, but every other aspect is there for the using -- and just think how easy it'd be to keep engines and other parts from overheating.

[Speed Limit 1000]

Finally -- there are areas TODAY that fit the need perfectly -- frozen lakes.  I don't think they'd be much good in the traction department, but every other aspect is there for the using -- and just think how easy it'd be to keep engines and other parts from overheating.

Slim, Can lakes really freeze in your part of the world?  

[wolbrink471]

Finally -- there are areas TODAY that fit the need perfectly -- frozen lakes.  I don't think they'd be much good in the traction department, but every other aspect is there for the using -- and just think how easy it'd be to keep engines and other parts from overheating.

Didn't Henry Ford set an early record running a model T or Model A on the ice?

SSS

After all my talk, I know I missed you last year at the bend in the road as well as Maxton, but I think I can make it up to you!!

Any chance you and yours are going to be venturing south / driving through Wisconsin in the next few weeks? If so, grab your helmet and Sorels and let me know....there are a bunch of four stroke supermoto bikes, a fleet of XR100's, and the odd 2 smoke mx bike studded up, just waiting to be ridden on the ice!

Lots of fun!

Mark

[Milwaukee Midget]

Finally -- there are areas TODAY that fit the need perfectly -- frozen lakes.  I don't think they'd be much good in the traction department, but every other aspect is there for the using -- and just think how easy it'd be to keep engines and other parts from overheating.

Slim, Can lakes really freeze in your part of the world?  

ABSOLUTELY!  In fact, before John Menard got into Indy car ownership, he used to ice race a VW Rabbit GTI with snow tires up around Eau Claire, WI.

Now that said, if you think salt is an inhospitable surface to race on, and that your windows of opportunity are limited by weather, try driving across a frozen lake and avoiding the tip-ups.

Oh, for those of you in warmer climates, tip-ups are little fishing poles that we use to catch fish through the holes we've augured into the ice while sitting on a plastic bucket and drinking brandy.

But as far as racing across the UP is concerned, what I wouldn't give for someplace in the upper Midwest to race.

[aircap]

some place flatter than a pancake...  Kansas!  I'll get started right after I win the largest powerball lottery in history...

The problem here, Stainless - is the south wind is blowing 20 MPH nearly all the time. As a native, you should remember that we don't even notice the breeze until they get blowing up to 30 or 40.
No wind at all seems unnatural to us - we definitely notice that!

Don't they usually stop racing at 5MPH or so on the salt?

[wolbrink471]

Oh, for those of you in warmer climates, tip-ups are little fishing poles that we use to catch fish through the holes we've augured into the ice while sitting on a plastic bucket and drinking brandy.

My personal favorite is finding the odd 4x4 that was left behind when the truely established brandy drinkers drug their shanties off the ice. The 4x4 keeps the ice from growing around the base of the shanty and the part they leave behind is 1/3 exposed and the rest is cemented into the ice. After sliding to a stop 1/2 mile past the 4x4 you still have skate/dance/walk back to the bike in a pair of motocross boots. This is usually when you realize just exactly how cold you really truely are!

Milwaukee Midget, what part of the city are you in?

Mark