track question

[hawkwind]

Quick question /s, how long ago did Bonneville go from one track ,to 2 tracks  and approx how many entries where there at that change over point ? , also have the SCTA tried wireless timers and what conclusions where drawn from any trials ?
cheers
Gary

[Bville701]

I remember in 88' there was still only one line. I don't remeber when it switched to 2 lines, but it was much longer after that. As far as the wireless timers goes I have no idea if the SCTA ever tried it, but there is a saying: "If it's not broken, why fix it?" or something to that effect. Anyone else shine some light on this subject? Maybe Glen?     

[hawkwind]

By track I mean course ,when did the SCTA go from 1 course to   ie long course and short course 

[Stainless1]

There was a long and short course 30 years ago, so old guy Glen, or one of the really old guys may need to chime in. 
So are you asking when the scta started using 175 at the 2 1/4 to qualify a vehicle to run 5 miles? 
We ran on the same course for years, slow cars ran 3, fast ran 5... then in the late 80s or early 90s there was enough salt and people to set up a separate short course.  Weather has driven it back to a single course several times.

[Glen]

SCTA/BNI went to two courses in 1990. It took a little getting use to with the noise of one course behind us and we had to look over our backs to find what was running. The timing stand only had one counter facing the long course. We had to build a new timing trailer so each course could be seen by the timers. It was a interesting learning curve the first year. The 3rd course was set up last year and had it's own timing set up. However the announcing for all 3 courses were done from the primary timing trailer. With 2488 runs I was a busy guy keeping up with which course to announce. We did it and the timing crew was wore out by weeks end. The Rice brothers great timing equip never missed a run.
 

[fredvance]

And I must say you and everyone did a fine job!!

[John Burk]

I talked to Mike Manghelli about a wireless system my friend proposed . Sending a single pulse gets tricky . The salt interferes with radio transmissions , static from magnetos and distant lightning , 3 timers receiving signals from 3 courses plus several other things . My friend's design had a circuit at each photocell that remembed the precise time of day (GPS) and sent it and could resend it to the timer . The trouble is it wouldn't work with the existing timers . All the photocells transmitting on one wire is possible but complex and could cause headaches . The existing one wire per photocell is reliable and simple to repair .

[Seldom Seen Slim]

John, your idea of using a pulse that has data on it -- the time by GPS as well as the contact closure when the vehicle breaks the beam -- is similar to an idea that I've worried about for a couple of years.  But unfortunately I'm not a software/hardware type of guy and would have to have someone who knows his butt from third base help design the system.

And when I've offered the concept to this Forum -- it's gone over like a fart in church.  I get unanimous negative responses -- mostly because the present system does work, but also because many of those responding don't (I don't think, that is) understand what I'm trying to describe.

If you'd like to converse about this idea and together maybe we can come up with a design that's workable - and that we can present to someone to build at least a prototype -- get in touch.   My PM and email address are available on the side of my posts.

[Wester]

The frightening part of wireless systems is the expense when a car or bike takes out a sensor.  The electric eyes mounted on the top of a motorcycle battery are a fraction of the cost of everything else we have used.  USFRA has tried wireless timing in redundant systems using equipment for ski race timing.  We also have used wireless for transmitting timing data to the trailer where racers pick up their printed times.  On the salt you are always looking at hardwired back up systems because of the salt gremlins.  Gary Wilkinson has experimented with every viable system he can find and we still go back to the miles and miles of wire.  Until something better, not too pricey and reliable comes along the racers are going to have to put up with a crew of workers doing the thankless job of laying down the miles of wire before the meet and picking it up after everyone else has called it a day and headed home

[Seldom Seen Slim]

No, Wes -- we've had this discussion before.  The sensors would be the exact same thing that's in use now -- with wires running to the other equipment (transceiver, antenna, etc) 100 feet (or whatever safety dictate) away from the sensor.  Same electric eyes, same reflector on the other side of the track.

I'd like to see something about the various systems that are out there that use digital data packets for timing - to see how they're doing it.  I'm not completely convinced that salt gremlins would have a bad effect on a redundant digital batch of data.  If so, I guess I'll admit it.  But I can't say it won't work 'til I have seen that someone else has tried the kind of system I've got in mind and then found it doesn't work.  Experience will show -- and it just might be that the experience folks have gathered so far doesn't include what I'm thinking of doing.

If you've got a link or two -- or a website or two -- for the stuff Gary has tried -- I'd enjoy loking at it.  PM or email me if you think the company doesn't want the exposure that they'd get on this site.

Thanks.

[Glen]

Trust me SCTA has looked into it. The Rice Bros. Have spent many hours of research looking at the wireless type stuff and still feel what we have and the wireless cost is way above what the wired system costs. SCTA  has a complete back up set for Bonneville.

[maj]

Glen is there any breakdown of which tracks ran how many vehicles ??
DLRA discussion is currently centring around if we need 2 tracks, our own number of runs are slightly higher this year , some of it due to a shortened course and i'm trying to get an idea of how much difference that made,
After attending Bubs and WOS i'm a big believer in our need for the 2 course system.

[Glen]

Maj.
Special short course  862
Short course 718
Long course 908

Total 2488 runs

[maj]

Thanks 

[754]

How many miles of wire to do the long track?
& how long to lay it out, and how much room does it take??

 ie,  fits in a van .. or??