Why has land speed racing ignored composite construction?

[Ratliff]

The first sandwich composite vehicle in which the occupant walked away from a 200 mph crash wasn't a high dollar Indy or Formula One car. It wasn't built at a factory or a raceshop. It was built in a garage.

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Amsoil/Rutan-68-Amsoil/1112526/M/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMSOIL_Racer

"The construction began in January, 1981 in Sacramento, California, first in a garage and then in a hangar. During the construction phase, Amsoil signed on as a sponsor, in order to promote its new synthetic aviation motor oils. The plane was built from fiberglass, kevlar and graphite composites. First flight took place that summer, but the aircraft was damaged by heat from the engine's exhaust. After it was rebuilt, it was entered into the 1981 Reno Air Races."

"At the 1983 Reno Air Races, during one of the early heat races, Mortensen had to maneuver in order to avoid a mid-air collision with Sorceress, ending up entering that plane's wake turbulence only 35 feet (11 m) off the ground. With so little altitude to recover, the AMSOIL Racer hit the ground at over 200 mph (320 km/h), tumbling. The plane was completely destroyed, but since Rutan had designed the cockpit to withstand a 22G impact, Mortensen survived with only minor injuries."

Links to books on construction techniques for the homebuilder.

http://www.actechbooks.com/products/act431/

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pdf/2007Individual/Cat07685.pdf

[thundersalt]

Is bondo a composit?

[panic]

Just a guess: we know what minimum wall thickness is, what is double shear, tube OD, how to tell 1014 from 4340 by spark, good welds from bad, bolt grading, blah.

How can the quality and therefore safety of composite construction be analyzed on the tech line? The degree of "soak" of the bonding material into the fabric, orientation of weave in an invisible layer, success of cure (forced with UV too much? heat checking? layer separation?), etc. make it difficult to tech something structural.
Rutan's work is well known, but of course experimental aircraft don't really have to satisfy anyone.

[Ratliff]

Just a guess: we know what minimum wall thickness is, what is double shear, tube OD, how to tell 1014 from 4340 by spark, good welds from bad, bolt grading, blah.

How can the quality and therefore safety of composite construction be analyzed on the tech line? The degree of "soak" of the bonding material into the fabric, orientation of weave in an invisible layer, success of cure (forced with UV too much? heat checking? layer separation?), etc. make it difficult to tech something structural.
Rutan's work is well known, but of course experimental aircraft don't really have to satisfy anyone.

Rutan's aircraft designs had to satisfy the FAA. The FAA had no problem sanctioning homebuilt composite airplanes to fly over heavily populated cities.

Rutan went to composite construction for his homebuilding customers because it required no special tools and was far more forgiving of construction errors than traditional metal fabrication techniques.

[Milwaukee Midget]

I don't know that LSR has.  Can a vehicle made from composites be built to comply with the rules?  I suspect it's simply because nobody's tried.

That might be a slick idea to run with.  Franklin, I'd say design such a car, take the drawings and architectural specs to the rules committees, get them approved, build it and race it. 

[1212FBGS]

people have built them... and people have raced them... the current world record holding motorcycle is all composite construction... they just havent aproched the SCTA with the proper paperwork for aproval...

[aircap]

I live in an aircraft town where over half the planes built have composite panels, bodies, or wings as part of their construction. We know composites here in Wichita.
Also, composites make great racecar parts as proven in the drags, Indy, Champ Car, and Formula One - and other motorsports.

BUT - it's too expensive for most teams who race on the salt.
 
AND THEN - you have to establish inspection and construction policies to govern the use of composites, and that will be darn near impossible with the current ruling body who want to hold to the status quo.

Maybe someday, Franklin - but not today.

[dwarner]

"That might be a slick idea to run with.  Franklin, I'd say design such a car, take the drawings and architectural specs to the rules committees, get them approved, build it and race it."

He already has, well except for the racing part. Ask for a photo of the propster.

DW

[wolbrink471]

Rutan went to composite construction for his homebuilding customers because it required no special tools and was far more forgiving of construction errors than traditional metal fabrication techniques.

He was also extremely serious about people following his methods to the absolute letter. The smallest variation / update / modification resulted in an airplane that was not a Rutan Long Ez.

Mark

[Ratliff]

I live in an aircraft town where over half the planes built have composite panels, bodies, or wings as part of their construction. We know composites here in Wichita.
Also, composites make great racecar parts as proven in the drags, Indy, Champ Car, and Formula One - and other motorsports.

BUT - it's too expensive for most teams who race on the salt.
 
AND THEN - you have to establish inspection and construction policies to govern the use of composites, and that will be darn near impossible with the current ruling body who want to hold to the status quo.

Maybe someday, Franklin - but not today.

Rutan composite designs like the VariEze and the Quickie were for HOMEBUILDERS to build in their GARAGES using HAND TOOLS.

The hurtle is the knowledge and imagination of sanctioning body officials, not composites technology.

[Ratliff]

Rutan went to composite construction for his homebuilding customers because it required no special tools and was far more forgiving of construction errors than traditional metal fabrication techniques.

He was also extremely serious about people following his methods to the absolute letter. The smallest variation / update / modification resulted in an airplane that was not a Rutan Long Ez.

Mark

Rutan meant WING PLACEMENT and AIRFOIL SECTION.

[MCR]

I live in an aircraft town where over half the planes built have composite panels, bodies, or wings as part of their construction. We know composites here in Wichita.
Also, composites make great racecar parts as proven in the drags, Indy, Champ Car, and Formula One - and other motorsports.

BUT - it's too expensive for most teams who race on the salt.
 
AND THEN - you have to establish inspection and construction policies to govern the use of composites, and that will be darn near impossible with the current ruling body who want to hold to the status quo.

Maybe someday, Franklin - but not today.

Rutan composite designs like the VariEze and the Quickie were for HOMEBUILDERS to build in their GARAGES using HAND TOOLS.

The hurtle is the knowledge and imagination of sanctioning body officials, not composites technology.

Interesting.  All the carbon fiber stuff I work with is autoclaved.  Autoclaves aren't "home builder" tools.

Is there a new technology, or are you talking fiberglass?

[Ratliff]

See my post about composite construction for options to cut building costs.

I did, Franklin - and composites do not cut costs, they're expensive.
You care to enter the real world anytime soon?

There is NOTHING remotely expensive about do it yourself composite parts. Indy and Formula One have nothing whatsoever to do with the REALITY of foamcore sandwich composite construction.

Simply checking out the prices at the link below reveal how the idea of "expense" is a myth.

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/cm/index.html

Here's a link to good books on the subject.

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pdf/2007Individual/Cat07685.pdf

[Seldom Seen Slim]

I've got an autoclave that you could buy.  It's not in service -- you could have it quickly.  6' diameter, 11' long.  We ran it at about 40 psi/260F, but it's rated to at least 75 psi steam.  We've also got the 3MM BTU natural gas fired boiler for feeding the autoclave -- that's for sale, too.  Both, along with the various water treatment equipment and ancillary parts, will fit nicely on a 40' flatbed trailer.  The entire package probably weighs less than ten tons.  I expect we'd let it go for $250k.

Oh, yes -- you'll need a pipefitter to de-install it here and re-install it in your garage, and also a pretyt darned big natural gas meter (and gas line) from your utility.  The state will send the inspector to visit your installation once it's ready to go -- should be done by the Halloween, so you can start on your race vehicle for next season.

The photo is, I'm sorry to admit, blurry -- it was hot in the autoclave room when I took the photo.  You'll get the basic idea, though...

[Ratliff]

I live in an aircraft town where over half the planes built have composite panels, bodies, or wings as part of their construction. We know composites here in Wichita.
Also, composites make great racecar parts as proven in the drags, Indy, Champ Car, and Formula One - and other motorsports.

BUT - it's too expensive for most teams who race on the salt.
 
AND THEN - you have to establish inspection and construction policies to govern the use of composites, and that will be darn near impossible with the current ruling body who want to hold to the status quo.

Maybe someday, Franklin - but not today.

Rutan composite designs like the VariEze and the Quickie were for HOMEBUILDERS to build in their GARAGES using HAND TOOLS.

The hurtle is the knowledge and imagination of sanctioning body officials, not composites technology.

Interesting.  All the carbon fiber stuff I work with is autoclaved.  Autoclaves aren't "home builder" tools.

Is there a new technology, or are you talking fiberglass?

To be blunt, people who think Indy/Formula One autoclaved nomex honeycomb carbon fiber parts are representative of composite technology as a whole don't know anything about composite technology beyond what they hear on television or understand why Indy/Formula One uses autoclaved nomex honeycomb carbon fiber parts in the first place.

The first sandwich composite vehicle in which the occupant walked away from a 200 mph crash wasn't a high dollar Indy or Formula One car. It wasn't built at a factory or a raceshop. It was built in a garage, before Indy and Formula One were even using composite tubs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMSOIL_Racer

Here's more extremely strong composite structures built without an autoclave.

http://www.dg-flugzeugbau.de/flugzeug-bauen-e.html

http://www.dg-flugzeugbau.de/sicherheitscockpit-e.html