question of the day

[Jonny Hotnuts]

Ok…..here is the deal.


We are about to start the build of the NA motor, we will do the turbo motor next year.

We were quoted an unreal 2K to do the motor work…..this is for labor only….no porting parts or anything….just r & r the parts we buy. This means we would have to pay an equal amount for the motor next year as well.

I told my pop that because we have the shop manual, support from the busa forums and a fairly good grasp on motors we could do it ourselves. Take into consideration that we will be doing a stoker crank….and this will require a case split.


My argument is that we will always have to rely on someone else for all motor work and will always be hands off deal. This could become a real problem if we have a problem on the salt and no experience with the build. I feel we should save the money and learn to be self sufficient and this will be better in the long run.


His idea (my pop) is that we shouldn’t because build our own motors because we have never done one (busa or other big bore bike) and any mistake we make could end up costing us a 10K$ motor. We also don’t have a bunch of room to do one and we don’t have some of the specialty tools (I call BS on this because I know that I can rent them from Suzy). He is worried that because the motors are sooo complicated that there going to be something that goes wrong and even because we have the shop manual and take our time that because we are using non OEM modded parts that something will go wrong.



So does anyone have any input…..to build or not to build……that is the question.


Thanks.....JH

[Sumner]

Ok…..here is the deal...................I told my pop that because we have the shop manual, support from the busa forums and a fairly good grasp on motors we could do it ourselves. Take into consideration that we will be doing a stoker crank….and this will require a case split.....

.........My argument is that we will always have to rely on someone else for all motor work and will always be hands off deal. This could become a real problem if we have a problem on the salt and no experience with the build. I feel we should save the money and learn to be self sufficient and this will be better in the long run...........

..................So does anyone have any input…..to build or not to build……that is the question.................Thanks.....JH

I'm with you, build it even if you screw it up.  Even if it is cheaper for someone else to do something for me than buying the tools I need, I buy the tools and learn how to use them and it never fails that sooner or later I'll use them again.

Don't forget that 2K you said would be more like at least 2400 since you have to pay at least income tax on the money you are earning that you will give the builder, or is the business paying for the race car for advertising??  Should be!!

Just budget some airfare money in the rebuild and when you get stuck you can fly Stainless up there to bail you out.  He is retired and seems to not have much to do anyway .

Then when you know what you are doing I'll have someone to lean on when I tear mine apart,

Sum     

[1212FBGS]

dude the motors are easy dont be afraid of um...you can call me at the shop and ill give some pointers
kent
(760)598-3366

[Dynoroom]

I'm an engine builder but I have two points of view on this. I have customers who use my services because I have experience at dry lakes racing and have set many records and helped quite a few folks enter the respective 200 mph clubs. This may give them a small advantage over someone who builds his own engines as there is always more to it than meets the eye. Being that I'm at Bonneville & most El Mirage meets I'm avaliable to help or answer questions if needed, so this gives them some peace of mind.
On the other hand trying to save a few $$ and  being self sufficient is fully understandable. If I were you I'd get a low cost engine that I could afford to blowup. It might not have the parts or power to set the record but it would teach you the ropes untill you have the experience to build the big $$ engine.
Remember, engine builders spent many years learning their trade, they deserve to get paid for what they know. If you want to learn how to build engines on your own this is the path I would follow.
Good Luck to you & your dad.
See ya on the salt.

[Stainless1]

Just budget some airfare money in the rebuild and when you get stuck you can fly Stainless up there to bail you out.  He is retired and seems to not have much to do anyway .
Then when you know what you are doing I'll have someone to lean on when I tear mine apart,
Sum     

Sum, I have a couple of motors in work now.  .6L, 3/4L and 1L, but I was a "travel guy" for 25 years at Boeing, I think my bag is still packed... If you get stuck I'll help you out... especially if you remember how you got in....
Retirement is keeping me so busy I'm trying to figure out when I had time to work...

JNuts the busa motor is not that complicated.  I suspect you are trying to get to 1507cc?? If so, that is a reliable size for the motor.  Don't go over 5 mil stroke, things get more difficult when you go bigger.  There are a few difficult operations involved, but I'll bet you can do them. 
Email me stainless1@cox.net with what you want to do to the motor.  Sounds like you already know the high strung gas motor will not work for a turbo motor, but a lot of the parts will be usable. 

[Sumner]

Sum, I have a couple of motors in work now.  .6L, 3/4L and 1L, but I was a "travel guy" for 25 years at Boeing, I think my bag is still packed... If you get stuck I'll help you out... especially if you remember how you got in....................

Thanks there might be a GMC outside your house someday that will haul you to southeast Utah!!

......Retirement is keeping me so busy I'm trying to figure out when I had time to work................................

Ain't that the truth.  It has taken me a year to get a handle on it, but I'm starting to figure it out,

Sum

[willieworld]

take the money buy the tools do it yourself you will be ahead in the long run  willie buchta

[hayaboosta]

Hey JHN- Like Kent said they are easy, but I have seen alot of people screw them up as well.  My entire business is based around the Busa engine.  Feel free to give me a yell as well as Kent to help you through the sticky stuff.  Scott 909 392-2233

[Dean Los Angeles]

Everything and everybody fits under the bell shaped curve. I have assisted a lot of people over the years with 2-stroke kart engines that are as simple as it gets.

Some get it, some get it really well, and the rest . . .

Never get it. Not in the smallest amount. Even if they get it, they don't retain it.

So the first thing you have to do is analyze your skill set. All the help in the world won't fix dumb mistakes. "Oops! I forgot to put oil in it." Spoken by a friends brother after rebuilding his first rear end with a lot of difficulty and help by us. He set sail around the block and when he came back it was screaming away. He was the same guy that rebuilt a 327 Chevy and when he went to start turn it over it would barely turn over. I asked him what the clearance on the rod bearings was. "Clearance?" So we both told him he was going to have to take it apart and fix it. "Nah, it will run in."

So it did. It took a month before it would crank over normal. In the mean time, it wouldn't turn over at all when it was warm, so he put a second battery on it. This was a 59? Ford (Yeah, with a Chevy conversion.) with the battery beneath the floor on the passenger side. The second battery sat in front of the passenger. In fact, the passenger had to put his feet on it. So then came the day when he jammed on the brakes and his buddy shoved the battery cables against the sheet metal and blew 12 battery caps and covered the interior with battery acid. His kart engine rebuilding wasn't any better. (Drilled through the piston, not once, but twice.)

So like I was saying, if you are prone to making mental errors, then a rebuild service is the better choice. Otherwise, write things down, take notes. Buy a digital camera and take pictures as you dismantle. Ask for help. THINK before you jump ahead and do something.

[willieworld]

on second thought better listen to dean very good advise  willie buchta

[1212FBGS]

whatever ya decide to do.... don't put 5wt oil in it..!...
kent

[jimmy six]

Sounds like Dean's brothers friend should have stuck with crossword puzzles.