Electric Land Speed Motorcycle

[1212FBGS]

hey you gonna come up and see me next week or do i need a better bribe than a burrito
kent

[sockjohn]

There is an electric dragster running 155mph in the quarter mile
http://www.killacycle.com/

Our goal is to get  an electric streamlined motorcycle to beyond 200mph, every now and then I wonder what are we thinking!

sockjohn

I built the bodywork on Bills bike... whats your goal? are ya building an electric liner?
kent


[/quote]

Small world!

Saying I'm "building a liner" would be a stretch at this time, it's nothing but drawings, a neat stack of parts, and PVC pipe for a mock up at this time.  Have not even completed the mock up.  I need to get busy, but work has been a distraction.

I originally wanted to build something to run in a more conventional motorcycle class, but after researching what people had done before and where I wanted to be, decided we really needed to run a motorcycle streamliner to get there.  On the back burner is a goal to keep the weight low enough to add two wheels and be under the lower weight limit and run it as a car if possible.

I will be a spectator this year, and can't wait to meet everyone and see all of these vehicles from the build diary's finally run!

[1212FBGS]

sockjohn
if you were building your liner.... what would you be using for motors, controller, and batteries?
kent

[Super Kaz]

There is an electric dragster running 155mph in the quarter mile
http://www.killacycle.com/

Our goal is to get  an electric streamlined motorcycle to beyond 200mph, every now and then I wonder what are we thinking!

sockjohn

I built the bodywork on Bills bike... whats your goal? are ya building an electric liner?
kent


[/quote]

We had a Discovery channel special at The LVMS with electric vehicles a couple years ago and it was wild as they made almost no noise as they went down the track!
I missed that Motorcycle run you have up Kent that would have be Cool to watch ! I wonder what the electrical shock would feel like on that thing ?Who was the Rider?

[1212FBGS]

?? hummmm not shure what your asking... are you asking what an 370 volt electrical shock would feel like???.....!!! pretty sure i don't want to know lol
kent

[sockjohn]

sockjohn
if you were building your liner.... what would you be using for motors, controller, and batteries?
kent

I'll be using a dual DC motor setup, but have not bought the motor controller or batteries.  Most likely a Zilla controller as there are not many other options that will hold up.  I did a LOT of research into AC motors and controllers, and the benefits just did not outweigh the price

It's tough finding a good setup since you're way past the 10 second rating the drag racers are using and continuous ratings, lots of good options fall apart upon closer examination.

I've requested quotes from both a123 and Saft for lithium ion batteries, and will do a test bed with two different lead acid batteries before committing.  Lead acid is obviously heavy and will take more space, but it may be barely possible.  I can always switch to lithium ion later, but if I design around lithium ion there will be no going back to lead acid.

I really ought to get some scans up and the mock up finished so I can start a build diary and we'll quit hijacking this thread

I won't reveal too much in voltage setup or horsepower, but wouldn't mind some competition   I think this is out there enough that people will have to see it attempted before others try it.

And yeah, you don't want to get hit by anywhere near that kind of voltage 

[roadtrip]

Great topic/concept. I've been mentally (pre-napkin notes/pre-sketch) toying with something based on an Elecrtathon vehicle.
You've obviously done your research ......... do you have any insight on NanoSafe batteries from Altairnano Inc.?
They seem to have a lot of advantages, like performance at extreme temps, minimal recharge time and no problems with fire due to thermal runaway like L Ions.
Cool project ------- love to see some plans

DonS

[Speed Limit 1000]

And yeah, you don't want to get hit by anywhere near that kind of voltage 
(/quote]
Never fear voltage, it is all in the amps

[isiahstites]

And yeah, you don't want to get hit by anywhere near that kind of voltage 
(/quote]
Never fear voltage, it is all in the amps

Yes it is......

[peglegcraig]

 Experience has been described as the ability to recognize a mistake because you've made it before.
 I was down in New Zealand as a young fella, our hot water cylinder was on the fritz, so I had a look at it. My roomy swears he threw the breaker...... melted the end off the screw driver and tossed me across the hallway I guess, cause that's where i woke up. 250v at 50hz, just glad I was a poor ground
 Won't do that again

[EVguru]

it seems common for Brits to pursue "easy targets"
with respect to electric records........choosing FIM
over SCTA......

I wasn't aware that we held any FIM EV records.

The Bluebird attempts were frankly shameful.

They spent some 4 million Sterling (8 million US$ at current exchange rates) to achieve a UK record of 136mph.

Roderick Wilde got a street legal Ford Taurus to 135mph.


However, the USA isn't the world and after breaking UK records it will be FIM records we have to break to draw in sponsors and media interest.


The first machine intended to take the UK record well over the TON will probably be more a less a long low battery box, with a wheel on each end. I'd like hub centre steer on the front end and I may be able to get a Bimota (Vyrus) Tesi 2D unit, or I could just get around to machining up the one I've been designing for a couple of years.

Motors will probably be multiple (2-6) Lemco LM200D specially prepared and rated at 20Kw continuous each.

Batteries will probably be Optima BlueTops initially.

I have a 192 volt 580 Amp controller (Auburn Scientific 'Grizzly') available, but depending on how the motors and batteries are configured we may end up with Curtis controllers.

This is in any case all dependent on me getting my Motobi Tornado sorted, tidying up and selling one of my Morini Darts, deciding if I'm going to keep both my Morini 250 2Cs, etc. etc. etc.

[Seldom Seen Slim]

While it's current, not voltage, that does the damage -- the two are inter-related enough that a blanket statement doesn't quite portray accurately the danger.  36 volts isn't a high enough voltage to cause much current flow through the skin -- the resistance of the body is too high to conduct much at that voltage.  360 volts IS high enough to make some current flow through you.  Hey, so is 110 volts -- as many of us know. 

If I remember correctly, it's a surprisingly small current that'll dangerous/can be fatal -- like 50 - 200 milliamps.  Higher current will cook more than kill.  36 volts (to use my example) is basically too low a voltage to get 50-200 ma through your hide.

High voltage can jump at you, though -- arcs and sparks.  A spark from the low-voltage battery charger would be hot if you got in the way, but the current that you'd pass would likely not be all that much.  I've been hit by about 2500 volts -- from the HV power supply in a ham radio kilowatt amplifier.  A quick zap and it was over -- in this case because the supply wasn't capable of delivering much current, so I got my hand knocked away and that's all.  Oh, yeah, and I think I had to go change underpants, but that's to be expected.

That said -- I do some of my own house wiring.  Boyoboy, there are pretty sparks when you play with 220V.

[sockjohn]

it seems common for Brits to pursue "easy targets"
with respect to electric records........choosing FIM
over SCTA......

I wasn't aware that we held any FIM EV records.

The Bluebird attempts were frankly shameful.

They spent some 4 million Sterling (8 million US$ at current exchange rates) to achieve a UK record of 136mph.

Roderick Wilde got a street legal Ford Taurus to 135mph.


However, the USA isn't the world and after breaking UK records it will be FIM records we have to break to draw in sponsors and media interest.


The first machine intended to take the UK record well over the TON will probably be more a less a long low battery box, with a wheel on each end. I'd like hub centre steer on the front end and I may be able to get a Bimota (Vyrus) Tesi 2D unit, or I could just get around to machining up the one I've been designing for a couple of years.

Motors will probably be multiple (2-6) Lemco LM200D specially prepared and rated at 20Kw continuous each.

Batteries will probably be Optima BlueTops initially.

I have a 192 volt 580 Amp controller (Auburn Scientific 'Grizzly') available, but depending on how the motors and batteries are configured we may end up with Curtis controllers.

This is in any case all dependent on me getting my Motobi Tornado sorted, tidying up and selling one of my Morini Darts, deciding if I'm going to keep both my Morini 250 2Cs, etc. etc. etc.

I have no personal experience with the Curtis, but it gets some not so great reviews when used for anything but a street (commuting) type vehicle.  Something along the lines of overheating even when used at the rated specs.  Heat is the enemy of electronics.  I would look carefully into it and get the recommendations of somebody who has used it in a high power application before making a purchase of one.

If you use 2 (or 4) motors you can set up what is essentially a two speed drive train by switching between a series and parallel setup.  Contactors have their drawbacks, and given enough time and abuse they can fail, so make sure if it fails open or closed doesn't result in an unsafe condition.

Slim is pretty much right on for high voltage safety, and the OSHA high voltage training I've had if memory serves correctly is that anything over 50V can create dangerous currents under the right (or wrong!) conditions.  Anyone dealing with it whether it is home wiring or otherwise should learn how to work on it correctly. 

Good luck and would love to see this run!

[Malcolm UK]

According to a fellow Brit the existing motorcycle LSR for electrics in the UK is a "pathetic speed" and "The Bluebird attempts were frankly shameful".  Statements that should not be accepted without explanation I would think.  Will we see one? 

And as to the claim that "They (Bluebird) spent some 4 million Sterling (8 million US$ at current exchange rates) to achieve a UK record of 136mph", can I see the accounts please that confirm this?  By the way two Bluebird cars were built for Don Wales to drive and he holds eight British records now in 2007.

As an 'EV Guru' it would surely be better to build and then show the UK how the British records on two and perhaps four wheels should be attempted.  Which location would the vehicle(s) use for the bid?  I see that a FIM record would be a stepping stone to money and media interest - does Bonneville then follow?

The British pursue the record targets that are recognised Internationally and by Europe first, but - electric or otherwise - most of them aim to become the world's fastest and they know that means going ahead of an SCTA/BNI record.  As many here know we do not follow everyone to the salt either.

For History buffs: the lightweight (less than 500kg) UK and FIA records were set by a team led by a Technical Design teacher and using students aged 16 in the operating roles (but a professional driver) in 1993.   

Malcolm
(Who knows when to keep hands in pocket when inspecting electric cars and boats)

[1212FBGS]

ev guru

 have ya ever been to bonneville? have ya ever actually built a vehicle... be very very carefull coming on this board and call someones performance "shame-fulll" even if the performance is low we give huge props for actually doing it. most of the guys on here are nice and help full except me.... i'm the resident smack down expert....... so lets all listen for that big popping sound of you pulling your foot out of your mouth long enough to apologize. then you can go back to working on mr blue top sparky.
love ya
kent