Diesel Lakester Class

[Stan Back]

FYI -- There's a blown diesel Street Roadster that runs SpeedWeek every year.  Seems to do it without complaint that I've heard.  Doesn't claim to be, that I know of, the World's Fastest Diesel Street Roadster, but probably could.

[fastman614]

SO, since I am "home alone" tonight .... I am going to go on.....

So, over the decades, there WERE, IN FACT, MANY extra classes that were instituted! Most of us have absolutely NO IDEA as to who or what motivating factor(s) was(were) behind MANY of the class changes and "new" class implementations....We all know that there were valid reasons though....and we see this request for diesel (SPECIAL CONSTRUCTION) lakester nothing more than a logical progression of the "valid reasoning process"....
SO, with that in mind, PLEASE THINK AGAIN ABOUT WHAT IS BEING SAID IN THIS POST!

You've made the point well here. Over the years the SCTA kept adding classes, and adding, and adding...... The SCTA does not need anymore classes. There are people who want a class for hybird cars, etc. As it stands now you can run diesel in a lakester. I'm against ANY new classes at this time. Some of the latest classes added we really didn't need (IMO) this is just another. You can run, get a time slip and promote the fact that you have the fastest diesel streamliner with it's wheels outside the body... 

Just my point of view.

It is NOT just about the bragging rights at home... it is ALSOabout the probability of NOT ever being anything more than an "also ran"..... NOT getting a "BLUE Club" hat etc....

[jdincau]

One year at Speedweek we won an award of some kind from "Chevy Power" magazine for the fastest Chevy powerd roadster at the meet. When I regaled my son with that tawdry little victory he said " would that be the fastest "blue" chevy powerd roadster or the fastest "red" chevy powered roadster.

 Perspective was gained.

[Stainless1]

SO, since I am "home alone" tonight .... I am going to go on.....

So, over the decades, there WERE, IN FACT, MANY extra classes that were instituted! Most of us have absolutely NO IDEA as to who or what motivating factor(s) was(were) behind MANY of the class changes and "new" class implementations....We all know that there were valid reasons though....and we see this request for diesel (SPECIAL CONSTRUCTION) lakester nothing more than a logical progression of the "valid reasoning process"....
SO, with that in mind, PLEASE THINK AGAIN ABOUT WHAT IS BEING SAID IN THIS POST!

You've made the point well here. Over the years the SCTA kept adding classes, and adding, and adding...... The SCTA does not need anymore classes. There are people who want a class for hybird cars, etc. As it stands now you can run diesel in a lakester. I'm against ANY new classes at this time. Some of the latest classes added we really didn't need (IMO) this is just another. You can run, get a time slip and promote the fact that you have the fastest diesel streamliner with it's wheels outside the body...

Just my point of view.

It is NOT just about the bragging rights at home... it is ALSOabout the probability of NOT ever being anything more than an "also ran"..... NOT getting a "BLUE Club" hat etc....

So here would  be a big question, would everyone that wants a diesel lakester class still want one if the 200 MPH Club minimums were set equal to the current numbers in the gas classes per engine size 

[kiwi belly tank]

Common now Stainless! You don't honestly think that would deter a racer do you? Racers are driven by that kinda stuff.
  Sid.

[dw230]

Dave,

I read this quote, from post #6:
"Couldn't diesel be added as a third fuel "group" (ie) Gas, fuel, diesel? Then utilise the existing vehicle class rules for all else?"

as intending to add diesel to all classes across the board.

DW

[fastman614]

Dan... That was not the original intent of the request for "expressions of interest".... It was more along the line of the concept that for forty years (I am pretty sure it was 1971), there has been diesel classes - starting with diesel streamliner back then..... We were looking at this from the point of view that the other special construction category should merit having the same fuel sub-categories as the "first" one....

And diesel engines, by virtue of their somewhat unique (if such I can really say) combustion principle, have ALWAYS been supercharged/turbocharged WITHOUT CLASS PENALTY since the initial inception. It would be my assumption that a supercharged diesel running in any of the gas or fuel classes will HAVE to run in a BLOWN class.... Would I be correct in assuming that, Dan? The diesel engine is just NOT going to make the same horsepower as a comparable gasoline fueled superchargered engine will make. I will use the GM "ECOTECH" engine as an example (and I could go back to the early 80s when Don DeBring had a 2 liter Ford in his Longshot streamliner....) .... Ron Main's car in the "ECO-FIRE" incarnation went ... what... over 300 mph! The Chassis Engineering Special is only into the low 300s .... and the JCB Streamliner was about 330 mph.... If the JCB 'liner was powered by two equivalent sized turbocharged gasoline fueled engines, the car would be a 400+ MPH car!

So, for all of you who say that running diesel in a gas of fuel class is how it should be.... well.... unless someone is content with going home with nothing more than the expectation of receiving nothing more than a brass timing plaque for their efforts, diesel power will be relegated to "also ran" status in anything but a diesel fueled class.

So, if "open wheeled special construction" classes do not get diesel as a fuel, well, our point of view will be "SO BE IT" and we will work with what we CAN do.... what, exactly, I don't know yet but.... something...

[racergeo]

  Most racers thrive on competition. This is just a suggestion, but the most excited I have ever been at Bonneville was  the Chassis Engineering C diesel liner beating the JBC streamliner to 300.The crowd went crazy. When you teched me a couple years ago you mentioned repeatedly as you made observations of how I built my car"back at the machine shop in Vancouver this is how we would have done that".  You old fastman, you need to show what your made of and go after one of those streamline records. I am sure there area number of fiberglass companies up in Canada that can create  some aero tire covers and you can aero out the lakester for the streamliner class. I'll try and hook you up with a really great guy named Rick Bitz who can probably build you a complete body. That way when you blow away a diesel record you can get that worm and fuzzy feeling associated with beating the competition!

[RichFox]

I think that if we need a Diesel class because the engine is not seen as competive in the existing class structer. Then it follows that we should have a Packard powered class. I think I have proven that a "C" class Packard V8 is not competive against many other engines. So rather than having to run for a lowly brass timing tag, I should get to run in a special class for noncompetive cars.

[Stainless1]

So Rich, what we really need is a Classic engine class to go with the classic Body... maybe the classic body should be limited to engines produced before 1981, not technology but actual engines... Proof that you engine was produced before 1981 would be required at tech.  
Oh, now there is another subject for the RFTA  

(sorry my earlier pot stir did not cause too much discussion so I'll try this)

[Dynoroom]

SO, since I am "home alone" tonight .... I am going to go on.....

So, over the decades, there WERE, IN FACT, MANY extra classes that were instituted! Most of us have absolutely NO IDEA as to who or what motivating factor(s) was(were) behind MANY of the class changes and "new" class implementations....We all know that there were valid reasons though....and we see this request for diesel (SPECIAL CONSTRUCTION) lakester nothing more than a logical progression of the "valid reasoning process"....
SO, with that in mind, PLEASE THINK AGAIN ABOUT WHAT IS BEING SAID IN THIS POST!

You've made the point well here. Over the years the SCTA kept adding classes, and adding, and adding...... The SCTA does not need anymore classes. There are people who want a class for hybird cars, etc. As it stands now you can run diesel in a lakester. I'm against ANY new classes at this time. Some of the latest classes added we really didn't need (IMO) this is just another. You can run, get a time slip and promote the fact that you have the fastest diesel streamliner with it's wheels outside the body... 

Just my point of view.

It is NOT just about the bragging rights at home... it is ALSOabout the probability of NOT ever being anything more than an "also ran"..... NOT getting a "BLUE Club" hat etc....

So......... you just want it to be eaiser to get a record and a hat?

I like the old days Stainless pointed out, half a dozen classes, what could be more simple........   

[RichFox]

In order to promote peace and harmony, I am happy to announce the First Annual RFTA Diesel Lakester Challange. No entry fee beyound what you were already paying the SCTA. No membership dues. All you need to do is email me of your intent to run for the trophy and run for it. All open wheel cars accepted. If your lakester gets beat by a highboy. Shame on you. You lose. I will supply the trophy worth at least as much as an SCTA class trophy for the winner. Perhaps they will sell me a blank. Or I'll just buy a nice trophy locally. You just send me a copy of your best time slip as proof of timing. There must be at least 3 entrys by July 4th that show up and run, for this challange to happen. If desired I will also buy a card size ad in the 2013 rule book and announce the winner. Because I like them I will also try again to promote the Classic engine Challange. Same deal but for any car, any fuel, any induction. No EFI. 1959 engine design cut off and no small block Chevys or Hemis. They are doing fine already. 348 type Chevys, BOP engines as well as Cads. Ford and Linclon Y blocks. FEs, Mels welcome. AMC, Studebaker, Packard engines encoraged. Poly MoPars and early (350-361-383) B motors. An anything else I forgot. Send your entry info to V4GMR@yahoo.com. And no whining allowed. Whining about the rules gets you disqualified right at the start.

[Stan Back]

One carbonator or two?

[Seldom Seen Slim]

Two comments from me.  First of all, Fastman:
Quoting here: "And diesel engines, by virtue of their somewhat unique (if such I can really say) combustion principle".  The word "unique" is an absolute - that is, it means "the one and only" -- so therefore "unique" can take no modifiers.  Somewhat unique (or any other word in fromt of "unique", such as most unique or almost unique or sort of unique (and so on ad infinitum) are no-nos -- they can't exist correctly. 

Second:  Diesel engines without supercharging of any kind do exist and aren't all that uncommon.  For instance, look in the catalog for diesel powered generators for house or farm -- the under-ten-KW size.  I could buy my bobcat either with the turbo Kubota (56 hp) or the non-turbo version (don't remember what hp rating).  Yes, the way to make big hp with a diesel is to force air into it, but they do exist and run and are commercially available.

[McRat]

Here's the thing:

Time marches on.

You cannot buy a Flathead Ford at the dealer.  Or a 750cc Harley.  Etc.

You can buy HiPo turbo diesels.  And Hybrids.  And true Electric performance cars.  None of these existed when the many of today's classes had already become obsolete.

Production classes become pointless if they only permit antique vehicles.

Perhaps changing the name to Out-Of-Production would be more accurate?

You either add classes to acknowledge that time does indeed change cars/bikes/trucks, or become the Southern California Antique Racers (SCAR ...)