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Author Topic: Methanol mixture question  (Read 10565 times)

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Offline Flylow

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Methanol mixture question
« on: June 20, 2012, 09:13:05 PM »
I am running an old engine with 13.5:1 compression.  It was built for 80% Methanol, 10 Benzol and 10% gasoline blend per the old books.  I ran it successfully on 100% Methanol last year but saw lots of corrosion in the carburetors.  Pistons were "galling" a little also.

Does any of you have experience running a blend (Methanol plus something else) that will help reduce the moisture uptake, provide lubrication, and last but not least give better combustion?  Note:  I am not going to add Nitro.

Thank you!! :-)

Offline Dynoroom

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Re: Methanol mixture question
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2012, 09:55:43 PM »
I think you'll find your problem is the lack of "pickleing" after you've run the engine. Even 80% will corrode alloys if allowed to sit in place. You need to run straight gasoline (albeit rich) to remove all the methanol from the system before you "park it" when you're done running. Meaning after every race.

By the way, I think you'll find todays race gas will make more power at that compression than alky.     :-)
« Last Edit: June 20, 2012, 09:59:50 PM by Dynoroom »
Michael LeFevers
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Racing is just a series of "Problem Solving" events that allow you to spend money & make noise...

Offline generatorshovel

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Re: Methanol mixture question
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2012, 12:06:19 AM »
I run my engines on WD40, after draining the methanol out of the system,,and replacing it with the WD40 (it actually runs very well on it ) this replaces the methanol residues without fouling the plugs, drain the system (including float bowl) again and replace with fresh WD40, and leave it until you are ready to race again(in my case, 12 months, if I'm extremely lucky)  (*  *)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
Tiny (in OZ)
I would prefer to make horsepower, rather than buy, or hya it, regardless of the difficulties involved , as it would then be MINE

Offline Dean Los Angeles

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Re: Methanol mixture question
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2012, 05:55:19 PM »
Quote
By the way, I think you'll find todays race gas will make more power at that compression than alky. 
Really?

A particular blend of gasoline can have 40 different hydrocarbons blended. There is no way to tell what exactly constitutes the gasoline (or chemical composition) you are running.
If you look at ERC Racing Fuels specifications you will note under the line that says "Heat Release per unit weight (bomb calorimeter)" their racing fuel ranges from 18,400 to 20,100. That is btu's per pound of fuel. Using the higher number and flipping it over so that we can equate, 1,367 btu's per pound of air.
No other race fuel manufacturer provides that information, despite the fact that is the true provider of horsepower.

Methanol is at 9,770. Because the stochiometric ratio for methanol is 6.4:1 you run more than twice as much methanol as gasoline. The equivalent heat release for methanol is 1,527 btu's per pound of air.

Racing gas would have to be 23,000 btu's per pound to equal Methanol. None of the constituents of gasoline comes close. Pentane at 21,706 is the highest, most are in the 19,000 range.

That's why there are different classes for gas and fuel.
Well, it used to be Los Angeles . . . 50 miles north of Fresno now.
Just remember . . . It isn't life or death.
It's bigger than life or death! It's RACING.

Offline Dynoroom

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Re: Methanol mixture question
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2012, 06:15:34 PM »
So.........
are we saying that there's no way at 13.0:1 compression ratio that a gasoline fueled engine missing ~3000 btu's compaired to methanol will make more power? Seems that science is on your side, on the other hand he's running a carburetor & on the dyno I've seen simular power output with both fuels.
I stand by my statment in this application.
Was I right about clearing the fuel system after running to keep the corrosion down?   :cheers:
Michael LeFevers
Kugel and LeFevers Pontiac Firebird

Without Data You're Just Another Guy With An Opinion!

Racing is just a series of "Problem Solving" events that allow you to spend money & make noise...

Offline Tman

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Re: Methanol mixture question
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2012, 07:34:04 PM »
Dyno, thats how we cleared the system in my pals karts. Let it blubber away on gas until the system has been purged. Wow, I actually know that one! :-D

Offline dw230

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Re: Methanol mixture question
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2012, 11:03:43 PM »
My vote is for ................... wait for it................Dynoroom!

DW
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Alcohol - because no good story starts with a salad.

Offline Jack Gifford

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Re: Methanol mixture question
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2012, 11:47:53 PM »
Dean of L.A.- thanks for those numbers.
M/T Pontiac hemi guru (or does guru status expire after 30 years?)

Offline NathanStewart

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Re: Methanol mixture question
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2012, 11:52:28 PM »
You could try running M2.  It's methanol with top lube.
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Offline Peter Jack

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Re: Methanol mixture question
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2012, 12:26:16 AM »
I'd run it on gasoline at the end of the day because alcohol just destroys aluminum. It was standard procedure on the Indy cars I worked on. Just plug in a small gas tank and pump. When the idle speeds up the gas has gone right through the system and you can shut it off. In the sprint cars we used WD40 and I wish I'd known about the gasoline trick then because it does a more thorough job and is easier to do. It's simple to do and it saves a lot of grief.

Pete
« Last Edit: June 22, 2012, 12:28:40 AM by Peter Jack »

Offline Flylow

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Re: Methanol mixture question
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2012, 04:11:20 PM »
Great advice here - Thank You!!

I will look into M2.  Point taken about running gasoline through engine as well as WD40. 

Dean form LA:  This is great information.  Do you have any idea if Benzol was added to contain and release more oxygen during combustion?  Also, I have not been able to locate Benzol but was told that Naphtha is basically the same as Benzol.  Is 'releasing oxygen' just an old wives tale?

Thank you all for your input.

Offline jdincau

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Re: Methanol mixture question
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2012, 05:22:22 PM »
I think methanol and gasoline wont mix unless you add benzine.
Unless it's crazy, ambitious and delusional, it's not worth our time!

Offline Dean Los Angeles

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Re: Methanol mixture question
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2012, 05:25:14 PM »
Gasoline, Benzol and Naptha are descriptions of hydrocarbons of various blends. Could be just about anything.
Lots of myths about fuel. I would run 100% methanol and rinse with gasoline after.
No nitro? 100% nitro AND N2O :cheers:

More info: "About Fuel"
http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,2308.0.html
Well, it used to be Los Angeles . . . 50 miles north of Fresno now.
Just remember . . . It isn't life or death.
It's bigger than life or death! It's RACING.

Offline jdeleon

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Re: Methanol mixture question
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2012, 09:07:19 PM »
I agree with Dynoroom.  Non supercharged.....modern race gasoline will almost always make more power than methanol.  Add benzine, then can't say.

Offline thefrenchowl

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Re: Methanol mixture question
« Reply #14 on: July 06, 2012, 06:46:34 AM »
Quote
modern race gasoline will almost always make more power than methanol

But I know which cools the engine better, that's methanol...

Patrick
Flat Head Forever

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