Driver's safety belt containment, prone/forward versus sitting up

[Saltfever]

Tony: Thanks for the great links. IIRC you mentioned it a while back . . . maybe on your build diaries but I completely forgot about it. Please help on few important points.

(1) Currently, we measure and fit seats like Kirkey and Butler, etc., very tight and wearing the appropriate drivers suit. If I was to use the poured foam idea, would I order an oversized seat yes/no?

(2) Did you fab or buy a seat structure? I know it will fit a range of body types so how much bigger is it?

(3) It appears the foam process could result in a thickness greater than 1" in some areas. (not allowed, rule book, page 28). Have you discussed this with SCTA? SCTA is worried about compression. Does the foam material alleviate that concern and therefor thicknesses greater than 1" are allowed in a  few places?

 

[maguromic]

Saltfever, I am not familiar enough with both those types of seats to give you an answer.  The best thing to do is call the manufacturer and ask them.  I do know some of the NASCAR car teams do use a poured inserts in those seats.

We have driver tub that fits inside the frame.  The structure has a basic back support and each one of us will have an insert to fit our body.  I did talk to Lee Kennedy awhile back and went over it all with him.  There is only one area that’s a little over one each and that’s in the hips (on one person, and if had to modify the tub with a bolt in insert to cut that down to less than 1"), the rest is less than one inch around.  We will also be covering the insert with nomex when they are finally trimmed.  Tony

[Saltfever]

Thanks, Tony. I'll call BaldSpot Sports tomorrow. You have tested the foam. If it is rigid and has little compressability it is not intrinsically a cushion and may not be a problem. I'll also call Lee. As you can tell I'm about to order a seat. 

[maguromic]

This is a top fuel seat with a poured insert less than 1" thick all around.

This is an F1 seat insert (less than 1' thick) which used to immobilize the driver prior to extraction.  We will most likely have similar straps on the seat insert also. Tony

[Saltfever]

The lifting straps are a nice idea . . .  a great aid for the emergency response team.   

[Saltfever]

Tony I misunderstood your description of the seat. I just read their patent and now realize the foam is only to create a temporary plug that can be digitized into a CAD file. A permanent seat is then CNC routered out of a better material. I thought I could pour a seat in my car and that is not the case.

Their patent is interesting. Digitizing a plug and then NC contouring has been going on for 50 years. I saw Lockheed do it in 1968 or 69. Coordinate Measuring Machines have been making the task easy for the past 30 years! I can see how their special insert material is a patentable idea as well as some other nice features. But I don't understand how digitizing a plug into a CAD file is a valid claim. But what do I know. . .

I think I will look into Keith Turk's idea of poured foam instead.

[Chris Horoho]

repeat from other thread but same thoughts here

I am working on a face down liner design (thought slightly different then jack's)
mine will be closer to a top fuel motorcycle riders position
but i feel if setup right these would be similar to riding a motorcycle (minus being strapped in)
i think its a much safer way to be in case of a rollover (which a liner is way more prone to do (at least my design would be))
keep up the great designs jack and i hope you find a way around this

[Gwillard]

Tony I misunderstood your description of the seat. I just read their patent and now realize the foam is only to create a temporary plug that can be digitized into a CAD file. A permanent seat is then CNC routered out of a better material. I thought I could pour a seat in my car and that is not the case.

Their patent is interesting. Digitizing a plug and then NC contouring has been going on for 50 years. I saw Lockheed do it in 1968 or 69. Coordinate Measuring Machines have been making the task easy for the past 30 years! I can see how their special insert material is a patentable idea as well as some other nice features. But I don't understand how digitizing a plug into a CAD file is a valid claim. But what do I know. . .

I think I will look into Keith Turk's idea of poured foam instead.

I believe their process uses a laser scanner instead of a CMM to develop the CAD file.

[Saltfever]

True. The point I was making was that the ability to digitize a part, be it a laser scanner or a CMM is mature technology or "prior art". Interesting how it is a claim in a new patent.

[maguromic]

Patents are only good as how well they are enforced. Having several patents and trademarks I know (mine were infringed by a certain Asian country that is famous for doing it).  Tony

[Saltfever]

You should copyright your avitars!   

[nebulous]

And that's what everything will look like soon (that roll cage)! We won't even have to think! Just spend more!
Thats what happens when fat rich people make rules, that prohibit little fast stuff!
Recently various vehicles were raced around Richmond to see which was fastest. A go kart wasn't even invited! Big, loud, expensive, thats what pays the bills!
All under the banner of we will level the playing field, and help the "little" guy!
New ideas will come from "official" sources, the ones our tax dollars support!
We get what we deserve!
jack   

[jimmy six]

Amen Jack.........and guys like me will be gone and a thing of the past

[nrhs sales]

Jack,

This might be asking too personal of a question but did Cliffs' family or anybody associated with Cliff file any kind of lawsuits against Bubs racing, AMA or FIM?  

I am just trying to figure out the rationale behind this??   

[John Noonan]

Dan,

Should send a PM on that direct...