BSA B50 -500 APG Build

[manta22]

My guess is that whatever is going to happen will probably occur within those first 1000 cycles.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

[saltwheels262]

Tom,
what size hole are you using for safety wire?
what size wire?

bf

[roygoodwin]

 maybe ask Mr google the following question "drill jig for nut safety wire"  it returns a LOT of things, some of which might even be useful. 

[Koncretekid]

Tom,
what size hole are you using for safety wire?
what size wire?

bf

Bill,
Supposed to be 1/16", but I've had more luck with the 3/32" drill bit.  Not sure about the safety wire but I think around .032"

maybe ask Mr google the following question "drill jig for nut safety wire"  it returns a LOT of things, some of which might even be useful.  

I'm wondering if you've found one that works?  I bought one, shown on the first site that comes up, which doesn't work at all.  The drill bit snaps every time and it only accepts the 1/16" drill bit size.  Following is a photo of the offending jig.

[Stainless1]

That is because drill bits can't drill in at an angle, should snap the little ones in no time... that's why they sell the little ones in 10 packs 

if you can mill a small flat, it will drill a lot better... in a pinch drill in straight a little, then change your angle, drill a little more, then change your angle, you get the picture until you are drilling the direction you want to drill for the hole. 

Buy a 10 pack of 1/16ths 

[manta22]

A few places like Aircraft Spruce sell a fixture that will allow you to drill the hex bolt corners without breaking those small drills. It is essentially a drill guide. Cobalt drills are good for drilling Grade 8 bolts for safety wire.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

[Peter Jack]

The fixture shown is fine. If you're going to use a fixture you have to go very gently, preferably pecking at it and use good quality drill bits. Hand drilling is just about impossible. A small drill press with a fairly sensitive feed is your best bet. I use a small drill press rather than the larger ones I normally use in the shop. I usually drill them free hand by first drilling straight into the flat until the straight part of the drill bit is into the nut a bit. I then rotate the nut in the vise and drill into the corner of the first hole formed by the intersection of the straight part of the drill and the drill point.

I hope that's clear. Once you get the hang of it things go pretty quickly.

Pete

[saltwheels262]

I also use the  3/32" bit with .032 inch wire.
 
it would be easier to use the flat star washers with the safety wire tab on them.
the tab is positioned to pull the nut or bolt in the right direction.
there are about 3 tabs that fold up onto the flat of the nut or bolt.--
1 tab is all that's needed to hold.

Bf

[Koncretekid]

My guess is that whatever is going to happen will probably occur within those first 1000 cycles.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

I'm not sure about this.  If our average run time is 3 minutes at 8000 RPM, we have just subjected our fasteners to 24,000 cycles.  I would feel better if tests were performed for a much higher number of cycles.  Of course, metals have fatigue limits and I imagine materials like Loctite do too.

That is because drill bits can't drill in at an angle, should snap the little ones in no time... that's why they sell the little ones in 10 packs 

if you can mill a small flat, it will drill a lot better... in a pinch drill in straight a little, then change your angle, drill a little more, then change your angle, you get the picture until you are drilling the direction you want to drill for the hole. 

Buy a 10 pack of 1/16ths 

This and the post by Peter Jack, of course, are the way most of us learned to corner drill nuts.  Lots of bits and patience are required as well as extra nuts because of the ones we ruined, some with part of the drill bit still in the hole.

A few places like Aircraft Spruce sell a fixture that will allow you to drill the hex bolt corners without breaking those small drills. It is essentially a drill guide. Cobalt drills are good for drilling Grade 8 bolts for safety wire.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

My fixture definitely didn't come from Aircraft Spruce, more likely, gangman industries!  The included angle for the nut to rest in isn't even correct, so the nut does not make intimate contact with the jig allowing the bit to bend.  Breaks the bit every time.

I also use the  3/32" bit with .032 inch wire.
 
it would be easier to use the flat star washers with the safety wire tab on them.
the tab is positioned to pull the nut or bolt in the right direction.
there are about 3 tabs that fold up onto the flat of the nut or bolt.--
1 tab is all that's needed to hold.

Bf

I have tried the star washers, but the ones I've seen are too flimsy to prevent a grade 8 nut from backing out.  I don't think they would be acceptable for fork nuts, for example.  Also, the 3/32" bit is more than double the strength of the 1/16", so is easier to use without breaking it.  I wouldn't use the 3/32" on smaller nuts because of possible weakening of the nut.

I found these on Ebay:http://www.ebay.com/itm/150352899620?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
Anybody out there want to buy about 80 of them?  Good buy -- cheaper than drill bits!




Tom

[wobblywalrus]

Tom, drill in from each flat, perpendicular to the flat, to a depth of about 40% to 45% of the bolt head width.  These are blind holes.  Chuck the bolt up in a lathe and drill into the head from the end just enough to expose the inside ends of the holes.  Now you have lots of holes for safety wiring and no broken drill bits.       

[Koncretekid]

Bo,
Good idea for the bolt heads.  And your favorite method of drilling the nuts is?  

I can actually do a pretty good job by milling small 3/16" diameter flat on both sides of the edge to be drilled, then starting the hole with a center drill, then finishing with a 1/16" or 3/32" drill bit.  Because the bit now emerges on the other side of the corner at 90 degrees to the previously milled flat, it doesn't break.  But it is time consuming.

I'm also posting a photo of my oil after several dyno pulls and about 5 runs at Loring along side the new oil (Amsoil 20-50 motorcycle oil).  I use a large K&N air filter, and a NAPA Gold oil filter on the return line to the tank.  Products of combustion?  I remember when we use to change the oil in our propane fueled forklift at the shop.  It never looked dirty???  Maybe the gas I use is dirty.
Tom

[Old Scrambler]

Tom...........your owner's manual gives instructions on the de-coke requirement for the piston and valves.  Looks like a little extra fuel & carbon in your oil.......

[DND]

Hi Tom

Have you ever tried the Aircraft all metal loc nuts, they have a little washer built in with a size smaller hex head and a thin section on top that is crimped to a oval shape

They are meant for one time use only, because it expands the oval shape

They hold damb good, yrs ago Bell used them to build the choppers with and they shake pretty good too

G Don

[Rex Schimmer]

Tom,
Your oil looks like it has been contaminated by combustion, blow by past rings and fuel down the cylinder wall. You don't see that on propane or natural gas engines because the fuel is in a gas form when it goes into the engine and does not drip as a liquid down the cylinder wall. My suggestion is to change oil more often and also let the sample of the used oil sit for a long period of time to see what may settle out. If you can see any types of particles settling to the bottom of the oil then your oil filter is not doing its job. The human eye can see particles as small as about 40 microns in diameter, about .0015 inches. I think that I would always recommend changing oil right after a new build and dyno run in as any contaminates that may have been present or introduced during assembly will be flushed out of the engine during dyno testing. Oil is cheap, your engine is not. Also on using "new" oil do not try to get the very last drops out of a bottle of new oil, that is where all of the "junk" from the refinery is. Don't shake the bottles before using and if you can, let them set for several days before using. I know this may sounds kind of weird but you cannot believe the amount of junk that is in a "new" bottle of oil. I have some photographs (some where!)of some "new" oil that I filtered through a 2 micron filter patch and then put under a 50 power photographing microscope and you can't believe the junk that is in it. Luckily most of the junk is things like weld slag and steel particles, small 20-50 micron balls, and other swarf that is in the refineries pipes so it settles to the bottom of each bottle.

I wiil find the pics of the new oil some time and I will put them on the website, you will be amazed at the junk that is in it!

Rex

[wobblywalrus]

There are oil testing services that will analyze the oil and give you some recommendations.  A lady where I work sends in samples from her diesel truck and when the lab indicates the oil needs to be changed, she changes it.  I think she uses Amsoil and they test it.  Some of the labs can give you a lot more info than when to change the oil and this might help you.

As for drilling my nuts, I use a method somewhat like yours.