2006 Motorcycle Rule Changes

[Dakin Engineering]

I'm with Aaron on this one.

I too have built to the letter and spirit of the rulebook.
It would help to know what class and specs I'm building for.
I also bought and then rebuilt my leathers, too.

Ok, I don't the same bux tied up in it, but SPIT!

[k.h.]

Now we see how the BUB Speed Trials came about.

These rules changes will cost time and money, and a few records.

So, how does one make an OEM H-D motor go faster without blowing out the bottom end?  The 89-inch motor in Rayborn's 265 mph liner was XLR based, XLR being ball bearing mains with ball bearing cams.  Last XLR I had blew the right case, I found new cases (this was a long time ago) and went with the "superblend" style bearings the alloy XRs used.  Just single row, not the double row on the right side that NC engine builder Johnny Goad (who rebuilt my alloy XR) taught the factory to do.  That XLR motor retained ball bearings on the cams.  Still running strong as far as I know.  But the early stuff is 4 speed.  Yawn.

So, for OEM cases, I wonder but what one can take, for example, a 1998 5-speed Sportster/Buell case and use Buell XB flywheels and shafts, but turn the shafts to fit the better bearings.  And run needle bearing cams instead of bushings, or ball bearing cams.  And spin as far above 8000 rpm as required. For 5 miles twice.

Just thinkin' out loud.

[JackD]

You can put anything or any combination of things inside a production motor as long as it measures correctly for the class.
 Titanium has been used when Einsteinium was in limited supply but cost was and is no object.
The net effect of the "Blind leading the deaf " method seems to want to push away the entries from a long standing rule that even predates any of the committee. As a matter of fact, last week predates at least one of the decision makers.
The changes are a laffer and wont do anything but demonstrate the effectiveness of the method and ultimately embarrass those involved.
Wider distribution for comment would have avoided all that.
 When the dead end is so obvious, sometimes the best solution is to go ahead and let you bump your nose.
Was that too harsh ?

[k.h.]

It's not too harsh.  Just clear as mud, but it covers the ground.  

Given the small LSR market, the economics of the decision won't really hurt any OE or aftermarket engine case manufacturers, just the few racers with either an interest or a stake.  Who knows what the politics of this rule change mean, and for or against whom?  No one is gonna tell, anyway if that's the case.

Does this mean the only two M/C records that now effectively matter are fastest sit-on and fastest streamliner?  And everyone else should just look for soft and open records instead of competing seriously lest they have their bikes made useless by rule changes if they do too well?

Snivel.

[Glen]

Or you could build a car,just a thought

[landracing]

I have to agree with Jack on this one..

Seems the head of motorcycles pushed changes that were out of his scope and wider distribution of the changes would have been better.. Effectively for the HD guys..

I have always asked and wanted a more distribution of the changes so we can more involved...

Then we move on to the vote is scta meetings when the changes are brought before the board is there enough motorcycle representation and do the car guys know what they are voting on or do they just say "YES" to move onto the next topic.. How many car voters know actually what all these changes meant...

Jon

[JackD]

If the intended target was Guthrie they missed.
The only real victim would be the HD bunch.
 The HD Clone people that qualify for Production
can also run in M so that didn't work either.
 The parts that are in common use now are prohibited in many applications with these changes.

" So as it goes, there it went, now it is gone, and you let it."

[JackD]

Scott is a Yamama based student of the art.
Well think again, or even the first time.
A lot of racers are thinking all the time and some of the rules seem to have no thought at all.
Gosh, what brought the normally shy type out this time ?
Ya gotta wonder how dumb things can get.
The officials job is to learn from past mistakes, keep it fair, as safe as possible.
 Don't create new mistakes, make it unfair, and compromise safety.
THINK ! (there is that word again)

[k.h.]

An added irony for the fellow in this thread who finds his M bikes now ruled superfulous: his activities in support of motorsports and in business over the past over the past half dozen years have actually created audience for LSR, both from afar and actually attending Bonneville.  By his example, enthusiasm and readily offered expertise, he brought in new participants, some of whom became and/or are now themselves record holders.

No good deed goes unpunished.  

Still, it will be sad to see people forced out or to double their investment in order to beat records set by now also illegal engines.

I was tempted to ask the two quick study in-house professors of interpreting and responding to rulebooks and rule changes to show us how to use "the system" to beat The New Rules.  They have done it.  Thanks to you both.

[JackD]

Before the pushrod was determined to be "SPECIAL", Vance Breese came to Bonneville with his HD type
roadracer and beat one of those Pops Y. cammer records.
Imagine the gall.
 I guess nobody told him.  How was he to know ?
 That was over 20 years ago and the record still stands in the same class as the 2 smokes and the cammers.
 Wait, I get it, he  used after market cases but I think he was in A anyway.
Those fast guys are not hard to figure, not like the half fast ones at all.

[k.h.]

From this thread:  

"The M bike should be a sit up and the A should be a lay down. It is as simple as that. Adjust the rules in small amounts as the mass produced bikes develop and let the A class rip."

It really is as simple as that.

Perhaps the rule will be reversed at some point.

[Glen L'Heureux]

...I'll just put the motors into some Yamaha street frame, and run a "factory" motor in the modified class....

When I approached a motorcycle tech inspector with this same idea, he said that it wouldn't be legal.

I said, 'but it's a Honda motor completely orderable from Honda with Honda part numbers made in quantities over 500'. That didn't change his answer.

I asked if they were going to move the records that were set with GP bikes over to the A classes as well. He said he didn't know, but didn't think so.

Whaaaaaaa? ](*,)

I wrote and called a couple other motorcycle tech inspectors and have received no reply. There's still no printed rulebook. Time is getting short.

I really admire and appreciate the effort that goes into making the new rules and promise to take my turn in the barrel someday, but I just wish that I didn't have to wait to start building something for next season only three months away from the beginning of the season.

...and if we don't preserve the records by moving records to where they actually belong, then we're throwing away our history. Very shameful and sad.

Thanks Scott and Jack for keeping productive discussion going.
You guys have inspired me since 1995.

Cheers.

-g
(Bike 966)

[Seldom Seen Slim]

There's still no printed rulebook. Time is getting short.

Well, Glen, the full rules are available.  Take the Rules changes that were posted a couple of weeks ago (I forget the date) and the 2005 rulebook -- and you'll have the 2006 rules.  I know how frustrating is is (was) when the rules weren't available 'til the print version arrived in the tube from SCTA/BNI -- but the changes are about six printed pages, pretty well marked as to what goes where, and the rest of the book still stands.

See you on the Salt.

[Glen L'Heureux]

...the full rules are available.  Take the Rules changes that were posted a couple of weeks ago (I forget the date) and the 2005 rulebook -- and you'll have the 2006 rules...

I understand that, and have done so.

...and perhaps it's just me being a little sensitive, but it seems there exists the possibility of a change between those published via .pdf and what will actually appear in the book.

Like Mr. Guthrie mentioned earlier, the addition or removal of a comma can make all the difference.

I got the feeling that it would be better to save the argument for the actual printed book.

Either way, the point is moot. My questions remain unanswered. I'm not blaming the inspectors or anyone in particular, necessarily. I'm just sending a ping via this forum. Maybe someone knows something they can share. Maybe someone can school me or point to a source I haven't discovered. Maybe someone simply shares my frustration. This is the place to find out.

Nice hearing from you again, Slim.

-g
(Bike 966)

[JackD]

the tech guy doesn't like it is not a valid reason to change it or demonstrate his ability to put it in print to be applied the same for everybody. The loop hole they now find in the rules is one they dug for themselves and it is now so deep the dirt is falling back on them.
Consist ant application of steady rules is the mark of success. Wild changes are the product of a feeding frenzy that will see them eat each other.