Wilmington Airpark

[entropy]

... I feel ECTA has a better handle on safety issues than ... texas just from what I have read. 
Zach

manifest,
every time i see someone repeat this it makes my blood pressure rise.
The Texas event takes safety VERY seriously.

i've done Maxton 3 times, Texas 12 times.

I love participating at both events and the people are GREAT at both.

Maxton does indeed have a more complicated set of tech rules, 3 tech inspectors for over 200mph, but does Maxton's higher level of complexity necessarily make Texas a less safe event in comparison?


The ECTA Team is GREAT, but I gotta think that Joe Timney and his extended nuclear family are stretched putting on 5 Maxton events and strongly supporting the Loring race.

The Texas Team is putting on 3 events in 2011, but their staff is very large.

All that said, i wish the Texas organizers (Jay & Shannon) would look at doing an event in Ohio.

Just my opinion.
Karl

 

[manifest]

Sorry I got under your skin but thats my personal view on the topic.  It makes my blood boil when I see videos of cars running 200+ without the cage and other safety devices SCTA/ ECTA require, thats the part that makes me question safety.

Now for you bike guys its an entirely different game.

I have spent the better part of my short time here on this earth involved with some form of automobile racing and know I have much to learn.  i just want a safe and stable racing operation that I can look forward to racing with for years to come.


Zach

[entropy]

Zach,
i don't know nuthin' about nuthin' about cars.
 

[Got-Busa?]

Sorry I got under your skin but thats my personal view on the topic.  It makes my blood boil when I see videos of cars running 200+ without the cage and other safety devices SCTA/ ECTA require, thats the part that makes me question safety.

Zach

I don't understand how people that have never raced at Texas always poke or question the way they do things?  Why?

You also have to understand that a lot of people want to come out with a street car and see what kind of speeds it will do.  It's all great when you are hacking up a RACE car to do the events but some people would just like to see what there DD or weekend toy will run. 

Honestly, I'd rather them be doing these high speed runs at a closed course event with safety crews standing by than on the STREET.  If they don't want to install every single possible safety equipment possible, I have no issue with that.  Like any other racing venue you sign a wavier for your own actions/responsibility so I don't see it any different with land speed....

[manifest]

Alright I know that some people, me included, want to see what our street cars/ trucks will do and yes it is much safer than doing it down the interstate or some back country road.  But I see the need for some limitations to be set for this kind of thing like ECTA has set at 135mph.  Go to any established 1/8mile track in the country and run faster than 7.50, guess what, most will tell you to go home until you have a cage and good belts.  They don't do this so Jegs can get your money. They do it because their insurance would tell them to kiss their own a$$ if someone was to get lose at the top end.  That being said I would hate to see another opportunity such as we may have in OH fall through the cracks because of an accident.  Common sense is the same no matter where your running.

Zach

[Got-Busa?]

It's all a liability either way you look at it.  Things can and do happen even with all the safety stuff in place.  I'd still rather have an open event that anyone can run with safety crews in place than telling them no and it happening on the freeway anyway late at night...   

[LittleLiner]

. . .   I'd still rather have an open event that anyone can run with safety crews in place than telling them no and it happening on the freeway anyway late at night...   

There are events (other than LSR) that do run street cars with minimal to no safety equipment   An example is http://www.scda1.com/faq/   maybe those guys could offer some insights as to how they view safety equipment, liability, etc.   

[Got-Busa?]

A road-course track-day is a little different than 1-mile accel.  It's still nice to have an event like this that anyone could run.  Depending on the rules you could eliminate a LARGE majority of the people that would be interested. 

What exactly are people worried about?

[sabat]

I would guess that the issue is insurance liability. If an organizer accepts money from a racer to use the track and get timed, there is a tacit understanding that the organizer is doing all he can to keep people safe. Each sanction makes decisions about how much safety gear will be required. The waivers aren't worth much, ask a lawyer.

[jb2]

"What exactly are people worried about"??

One bad injury or death and other venues would have a terrible time getting insurance.  If one is stupid enough to go on a highway to see how fast his street car/bike is then they are taking that liability.  When a venue gives them a place to do it, then what?  Think about it and answer your own question.

Jim

[dw230]

"What exactly are people worried about?"

How about the off road truck that flew into the crowd in California last August, eight dead.
Sanction body facing huge liability problems.

Would you feel the same if that Lambo that flew in Texas last year took a right turn into the snow fencing? Would there be any scheduled events this year?

DW

 
 
 

[RansomT]

I guess I can give a little insight to this conversation, coming from the perspective that I raced an auto first and then a motorcycle.

What’s the difference between racing a motorcycle at a sanctioned and non-sanctioned high speed venue? Hardly any.   If I asked the same question about autos, then I could produce a HUGE list of safety items.  This is where some of the disparity lies.   Also......

While I do agree 110% that a car has no business going 200+ without a cage, I do believe that we error of the side of caution for autos going well under 200.  Yes, if you want to run at Bonneville, you need to set your auto by those safety rules and by all means set your vehicle up to the safety standard you feel most conformable.  However, an individual that wants to experience what 150 mph feels like in their street driven new Corvette, shouldn’t have to gut it and install all the safety equipment as required by our sanctioned safety rules.  Heck folks, I have friends who do road race in the NASA series  http://www.nasaproracing.com/ , who regularly see 175 mph down the long back straightaway at some tracks and they only have 4 point cages.  I have attended track days at Road Atlanta where street driven club cars do 150 mph with no cages at all.  What do they do about insurance and liability?   BTW, you know what happens if you go 150 mph without cage at ECTA?   You go home.
 
Sensibility has to be the key.  Yes we need to insure and stress safety, but also need to open the sport up to some lower speed street vehicles .  Yes, a turbo Viper running 200 needs to have a bunch of safety equipment, but what about that street driven stock Corvette?

[manifest]

Thank you thank you RansomT, dw, jb, and sabat.

Like I side before I have no dog in the motorcycle fight so i'll stay on the porch but autos are different.  You can get away from a bike.  Saw a feller lay one down at maxton in Oct., but a car or truck is different.  If I'm not mistaken 135 is the bump for having a 4 or 6 point cage at Maxton.  This is a bit low if you have mentioned Vette but I know I wouldn't want to go bottoms up in our Karmann Ghia without a cage and we are just tickling the 140s.  But there can't be a rule for each car or year or style or what safety rating it came with in whatever year so its set at 135.

Zach   

[RansomT]

Thank you thank you RansomT, dw, jb, and sabat.

Like I side before I have no dog in the motorcycle fight so i'll stay on the porch but autos are different.  You can get away from a bike.  Saw a feller lay one down at maxton in Oct., but a car or truck is different.  If I'm not mistaken 135 is the bump for having a 4 or 6 point cage at Maxton.  This is a bit low if you have mentioned Vette but I know I wouldn't want to go bottoms up in our Karmann Ghia without a cage and we are just tickling the 140s.  But there can't be a rule for each car or year or style or what safety rating it came with in whatever year so its set at 135.

Zach   

and I agree.   There is a whole lot of difference between your Karmann Ghia at 140+ and a production Vette at 140+, that I can't answer.  But I do know, you can go 150 at Bonneville without a cage.

[4-barrel Mike]

150 club rules say:

SAFETY REQUIREMENTS:
A four- (4) point roll bar approved by a recognized Racing sanctioning organization must be installed in the vehicle; driver is responsible to provide objective evidence of approval. Integral Corvette-type roll bar is not acceptable.

http://www.saltflats.com/I50_Club_2009.html

Mike