Danny Thompson story on Speed TV

[Peter Jack]

I read somewhere, a long time ago, that nylon belts may stretch up to 2" per foot of belt length. That was one of the reasons for keeping the lengths as short as possible. I've always kept that number in mind when I was doing an installation. Polyester probably has some give but not to the extent of nylon.

Pete

[bvillercr]

To me it looks like the rear attachment of Dannys belts at his shoulders look to be close to the same height.  If this is the case then the attachment is incorrect.  Just an observation.  

[Cajun Kid]

PJ,

Polyester does have less stretch than Nylon. Safety Solutions (where I also got my HNR) advised me to use the "Heavy Weight" Polyester Belts in my Stude.. Due to my weight.

After seeing the video, I am glad I have a full containment seat, a HNR and Heavy Weight 7 point Harness.

I hate Danny crashed but this video should help all that follow him (if they take notice and upgrade belts etc..as well as proper belt length and mounting).

Take care all,

Charles

[dw230]

The point was made that the nylon belts do have more stretch than the poly belts. To have more give with nyon, to "ease the hit" only means that your body has moved further and gained more speed before the final stop, belt limit. The speed and distance of body movement will determine the amount of injury. Less travel, less severe the injuries.

DW

[jimmy six]

Thanks Dan, That is what I ment...We need the movement (shock absorber) but I don't want anymore than absolutely necessary so the move to poly belts. As to Jim I too do not want to crush into the cage when upside down and we all know how close we make them to our helmets. This is where the 9 point belts come in; the 2 extra would be under the device (Hans) holding you down and not worried about going forward. The ones over the device to that. Also notice the device side straps do not hold you hard against it; you have some movement.........This discussion is good for LSR

I can't remember how many G's were in Dr. Melvins illustrations but it was a lot higher than old "experts" said the human could survive.

[jl222]

JL: I'm not sure I understand your question. Are you saying this location should be higher or lower or reanalyzed?

Danny's belts are mounted on the cross bar behind the seat at what appears to be the correct height.  All belt manufacturers give you a very small window to establish this height. The rule book page 27, figure 5 shows that location as 2" min and 4" max below shoulder height. From what I can see Danny had them attached correctly and within those limits. I think if they are too low in back you will get spinal compression, if too high you get too much shoulder belt stretch and maybe even too much lap belt stretch allowing you to rise up out of the seat. However, I wish I knew more and appreciate the start of this thread.

  The belt mounts are even if not above his shoulders. If they were mounted as the SCTA rules require he wouldn't have
 moved so close to steering wheel, also he doesn't seem to be belted in very tight.

              JL222

[jimmy six]

jl...looking at the film and never looking at the car I would say I would like the attaching point closer to the seat and shoulders..as for the height of the mounting I always follow the manufactures recommendations and from where the camera is in the car it is hard to determine if the instructions were not followed.

From re-looking at the You Tube of it and what I learned for the seminar the car needed a shoulder support and a stronger helmet support which IMO needed to extend farther and be braced. 

This weekend I looked much closer at the in car camera shots of the NASCAR race in Phoenix and looking at how they are in the car and seat and how they are braced. The information we received at the seminar makes a believer out of me on how the drivers can walk away from such horrendous wrecks especially at the super speedways. If I rebuilt my coupe or I had one (especially one nearing 250-300 mph) it would have a NASCAR seat or one damn close to it no matter what the cost. Those drivers have no problem shifting and have their shoulder and thigh tightly braced and drive for hours.....JD

[jl222]

jl...looking at the film and never looking at the car I would say I would like the attaching point closer to the seat and shoulders..as for the height of the mounting I always follow the manufactures recommendations and from where the camera is in the car it is hard to determine if the instructions were not followed.

From re-looking at the You Tube of it and what I learned for the seminar the car needed a shoulder support and a stronger helmet support which IMO needed to extend farther and be braced. 

This weekend I looked much closer at the in car camera shots of the NASCAR race in Phoenix and looking at how they are in the car and seat and how they are braced. The information we received at the seminar makes a believer out of me on how the drivers can walk away from such horrendous wrecks especially at the super speedways. If I rebuilt my coupe or I had one (especially one nearing 250-300 mph) it would have a NASCAR seat or one Dodge close to it no matter what the cost. Those drivers have no problem shifting and have their shoulder and thigh tightly braced and drive for hours.....JD

  If you don't know the manufactures recommendations it wouldn't matter were the cameras were mounted to determine the right place. We can follow the manufacture rules and disregard  SCTA rules?  2'' min --4'' max.

                               JL222

[saltfever]

JD is there anything from the safety presentation available on-line? Maybe a link to power point slides? Or did Dr. Melvin give out any links or contact information?

[jimmy six]

jl: The recommendations of the restraints I have purchased were all within the specifications of the SCTA...Like I said I can not and will not comment on the car YOU question.

salt:
I believe a Rod Rider taped the entire presentation, sorry I do not know his name. Dr. Melvin did not have any info to pass out that I have found. His presentation videos drawings/depictions continuously showed side supports for the drivers shoulder area and thigh area. The rib cage are was not as important. I did ask him a question concerning vehicles we race like streamliners, lakesters, modified roadsters, and roadsters with tight cage structures which do not lend themselves to the cars seats he was describing (NASCAR). He reccommended that there be no exposed round bars which could cause the driver to injure their shoulder when being moved around in an incident. Without saying so this this tells me to cover all my exposed bars with flat panels which are flush or over the bars which are exposed in my own car. Others can do as they wish.

If you want to look at racing seats with correct protection for a coupe like car look at Randy LaJoie's website. I'm sure he is one of many who does them correctly. For the 9 point or dual shoulder harness, one over and one under the head and neck restraining device look at the Schroth website. It's the only one I've found so far which shows both built into one and meets SFI 16.5, I'm sure there are others.

As for the comment about movement with harnesses and nylon; personally my shoulder harness are less than 24" . If that meant I would move 4+" at the shoulder and my head more than that restrained...I'll take the poly....................JD

PS: I written enough

[jacksoni]

[[/quote]

  , also he doesn't seem to be belted in very tight.

              JL222
[/quote]

My impression too!

[maguromic]

I did ask him a question concerning vehicles we race like streamliners, lakesters, modified roadsters, and roadsters with tight cage structures which do not lend themselves to the cars seats he was describing (NASCAR). He reccommended that there be no exposed round bars which could cause the driver to injure their shoulder when being moved around in an incident. Without saying so this this tells me to cover all my exposed bars with flat panels which are flush or over the bars which are exposed in my own car. Others can do as they wish.

This is why we are using a safety cell constructed out of 3/4 honeycomb for the driver.  Tony

[dw230]

How about making that safety cell ejectable, pod like?

DW

[saltfever]

JD, thanks for the links and the added information . . . good stuff. 

[Stainless1]

How about making that safety cell ejectable, pod like?

DW

Dan, with all the concern about parachute placement on roadsters the parachute for the capsule could be construed as streamlining