Anybody interisted in running E85?

[dw230]

From post #8:

"In SCTA, production is more of a body class than an engine class -- at least when it comes to modifications."

In the Production classes the choice of heads(to an extent), cam and intake is optional. So it figures that it is not a production engine class.

How many people are talking about here that would consider running E85 in the approx. 50 available Production Category classes?

Next question, can I run E85 in my Modified Category, Gas Coupe?

So many questions,
DW

[Worlds Fastest Comanche]

E85?  A mixture of Gasoline and an additive = Fuel.

Probably produce more HP?  Of course it will.

Silly not to allow it?  Then why limit production to gasoline, just allow anything because E85 is not gas regardless of where you can buy it and what you can use it in and who approves it for usage. 

In section 2B of the rule book it defines Gasoline as having no more than 10% methanol,  so it seems that gasoline is still gasoline even if you add methanol.   I don't know where this 10% thing came from, but I am guessing the rule book was changed because gasoline with 10% methanol was what was available at the local gas station.  so i guess if we want to be purest the rule should be changed back to gasoline only, and we should forget about the fuel we put in our car every day.    

[dw230]

Pump gasoline with 10% added will pass the meter standards as outlined in the rulebook.

"You need to read the whole thing."  Jack Dolan

DW

[jb2]

Dan, you can run E85 in any class, as long as it is a Fuel....

Oh, let's just create a Fuel class for production.  We need more classes.

[manifest]

I see the pros and cons of each arguement.  That being said I would be interested in trying it if it were legalized in production.  Who cares what used to be, times change.  If E85 makes more power and it is legal for PRO class cars to run do you not think that many of the racers would start running it seeing as we all want to run faster?  I know I sure as sh!t do.  Records will fall but that doesn't take away from the previous record holders in my book cause THEY HAD A RECORD AT BONNEVILLE.  How many people on this earth can say that?  Not many.  So be open minded to change and other peoples ideas becuae thats how we progress.

Zach

[maguromic]

Dan, We need to consider it for Gas Roadster also. Tony

[jb2]

A fuel gas roadster?   

I am open to change, just not open to fuels in a gas class.  Production or not.  If E85 is allowed, under what basis do you allow it?  Who is next to follow with their power additive, in gasoline, purchased over the counter somewhere saying that it should be legal as we already have allowed a fuel?  I can get Kerosene and LPG at some stations here.  I understand there are filling stations to fill Hydrogen as well, should we allow that in production?

BTW, no dog in this fight.  Last we ran production was 98 and that record has been surpassed. 

[desotoman]

I sent a request into to the SCTA requesting a rule change to allow the use of E85 in production classes. I would like to run it because it is cheap, can probably produce more power especially in boosted applications than gasoline, and is readily available.  

What do you think?

Peter Lechtanski


I must admit that i am not concerned about how this will affect your fuel supplier, I am sure you can find a supplier someplace  to provide to provide the fuel you want for your event.  

Peter,

It took a long time to get a fuel provider to come to Bonneville, as there is no money in it. The good thing is it puts everyone on a level playing field as they have to use the same brand gas.

If you want to use E85 go ahead, you can still claim you are the "Worlds Fastest Comanche", but you will have to run for time only, and no record, if you insist on running production. 

I am sorry to say this but the last sentence I quoted you on sounds awful selfish, you might want to reconsider how this could affect you and your fellow racers.

Tom G. 

[thundersalt]

The rules is was they is. Gas=ERC at SCTA events. Anything and everything else=Fuel. No fuel class for Production?oh well. Just like my class there's no CFC (classic fuel coupe) or I would be using knauws

[dw230]

"I am open to change, just not open to fuels in a gas class.  Production or not. "

Point made, a bit different from your previous post.

"Oh, let's just create a Fuel class for production."

OK, there is a process for requesting rule changes. Outlined on PAGE 1 of your rule book. From Comanche's first post I see that he followed the procedure.I have access to all submitted change requests for 2011 and I did not see his idea. Checking the original request over I see it was submitted in Oct., well after the 09/01 cutoff date.
 
From the 2010 rulebook, page 1:

"Submissions received after September 1st of any year will not be considered for that year’s agenda."

I am sure it will hit next year's list, make sure you touch base with the email address to ensure your proposal is active next year. You have time to refine it some too.

There is a request for adding vegetable oil to the Diesel Truck class as an approved fuel, green reasons too. That request is on the meeting agenda because it went thru channels and was submitted on time.

DW

[Worlds Fastest Comanche]

You did not see the rule change request because it was submitted after Sept 1 2010 which is the cutoff for rule request changes for the 2011 rule book,  The request had been entered into the database for review for possible inclusion in the 2012 rule book.   

I can modify the request, and after reading the posts here.  I may modify my request to only apply to vehicles originally built as Flex Fuel.   This would be less disruptive  and  more with exploiting new technology as it becomes available.   

Alcohol  in our fuel (not gasoline) is here to stay, be it 10% 15% or 85% It wasn't my idea, all i know is that it exists and it is the future whether we like it or not. 

[jdincau]

I remember the Friendly Cherokee but not the fastest Comanche

[johnbeck]

SO.... if I went to the local gas station and bought some e85 for my street roadster I could run CBF/STR.
Sounds like a cool class to me.

[Worlds Fastest Comanche]

I sent a request into to the SCTA requesting a rule change to allow the use of E85 in production classes. I would like to run it because it is cheap, can probably produce more power especially in boosted applications than gasoline, and is readily available.  

What do you think?

Peter Lechtanski


I must admit that i am not concerned about how this will affect your fuel supplier, I am sure you can find a supplier someplace  to provide to provide the fuel you want for your event.  

Peter,

It took a long time to get a fuel provider to come to Bonneville, as there is no money in it. The good thing is it puts everyone on a level playing field as they have to use the same brand gas.

If you want to use E85 go ahead, you can still claim you are the "Worlds Fastest Comanche", but you will have to run for time only, and no record, if you insist on running production. 

I am sorry to say this but the last sentence I quoted you on sounds awful selfish, you might want to reconsider how this could affect you and your fellow racers.

Tom G. 

Wanting to set a land speed record
Wanting to date a good looking girl
Wearing nice clothes
Eating good food
These are things that all could be considered selfish.  I'm not trying to be Miss America, so I am allowed to be selfish.

But i think that discussion is off topic.   I do appreciate all the people who spend their time and probably some of their own money working in the SCTA and BNI organizations.  It is a huge event, and i am grateful that because of their efforts I am able to go racing.   I am sure allot of time an effort has gone into getting ERC to be the supplier for Bonneville and i do not mean to belittle the hard work that went into that up.   

But as this thread unfolds, it seems that everybody is making 2 assumptions, First that E85 has more energy than the fuels currently supplied by ERC.   The Second assumption is that ERC would not be willing to supply e85 if it became legal.    If it turns out that the first assumption is false and E85 supplies about the same energy or less energy then the ERC fuels, than what's the big deal?    As for the second assumption we won't know until somebody asks them.   

But a decision about what technology to use in a race car should be based on what makes sense for that point in history.  Who is going to be the supplier should not determine what technology is used.  First you decide what makes sense for the sport, then you figure out how to implement it. 

I have been told that there is no interest from the racers in running E85, I guess i am a skeptic, so i started this thread to see if that was true.  If indeed there is no interest I will withdraw my request for a rule change and move on.   However if you are interested in running E85  I suggest that you go to http://www.scta-bni.org/Forms/Rulebook-Intro.html   and fill out the from requesting a rule change.

[Milwaukee Midget]

Jon -

Thanks for the correction - 15% solution, not 20%. 

I do think it's pretty simple.  The SCTA has a definition of what constitutes gasoline, and an absolute method of testing it.

Everything else is fuel, or diesel.

If E-85 eventually works its way into being a common fuel (it's not at the present, despite its increasing availability here in Corn Country, where it has political advocates), at that point, I would agree that the SCTA should look at it for production classes.

But realistically, I don't see it becoming available universally.  Let's face it, if one were to try to travel from LA to Loring in a car that was designed to run only on E-85, it would be a long trip with many side trips to small rural communities with farmer's cooperatives that actually sell it in order to fuel up. 

That said, I remember the 10% alcohol blend being poo-pooed, and now it's common.  But it took thirty years for that to happen.  I don't see E-85 around in thirty years - not with the corn based system of producing ethanol that we have now.  But if I'm wrong, I also have no doubt that the SCTA will adopt such a change, just as they did when 10% solutions of gasoline and alcohol started becoming common.
 

I think it's too early in the game to adopt an E-85 rule for production classes.  Let's see how the product plays out in the market in the long run.