new 2011 rule changes

[Sam Strube]

Hi Dan!

Where the rulebook says now:

"3.A.3 Driver’s Helmet SupportLateral Movement: The seat, roll cage structure or suitable restraint system, such as a restraint net, swing away bar or similar such device, shall provide restriction to lateral head movement of less than 2 in. per side inclusive of structure deflection, and at a minimum extend to the forward most portion of the helmet see Section 3.B.1."

I would like to see a little clarification on the part that says "head movement of less that 2 in. per side".

To me, that means that in the seated position, if you lean your head to one side, you should have 4" on the other side of your head.

When we built my car... I knew this was wrong... so I asked.  I was told by a tech inspector that you should have about 2" to one side if your head is up against one side.

So, I think in this case... it would be good to have an example in there.  i.e. "Example: If your helmet is against the padding on the right you should have x-amount of distance from the helmet to the padding on the left side."

Just a suggestion!

Sam

[Bob Drury]

  Sam, I totally agree.  The rewrite helps clarify but that darn "inclusive" still makes me scratch my head.
  As I said in a earlier post, we are not all rocket scientists.  Make it simple for us simple minds..............Puleeze!
                                                                       Bob

[Milwaukee Midget]

I'm reading it as two inches on the left side, two inches on the right.

The starting point would be your standard driving position.

You have two sides - two inches per side, thus "lateral head movement of less than 2 inches per side."

I suppose I could shim it up if I'm wrong, but I'd think you'd need that much room to prevent your head from pin-balling between the restraints.

[Dynoroom]

At the tech inspectors meeting in 2009 when this wording was put in thee book (IIRC) it was explained to me like this.

"Take the drivers helmet, put it against the cage & take your fist to see how much room you've got"

The meaning is we "try" to keep things simple. The average fist is ~4" across. Thus 2" per side. Nothing exact, we won't use calipers. Just don't have too much clearance, simple.

[jl222]

   First of all I want to go on record, [so there is a record] as apposing this new lateral movement rule as written.
   How will this forward most part of helmet be measured [by placing the helmet in back of seat at headrest or
  with driver in and then measured which places helmet further foward? Anybody friggen know?
  Right now the new placment leaves 151/2 inches to our front roll bar down tube, I measure 131/2'' front to back
 without firesuit on and firesuit measures 11/2 in. thick ...total 15 inchs this is turning completly sideways to get out, WITHOUT a hans device on AND Camaro's have wide doors. Guess what, there are guys way bigger than me and cars with way smaller doors.
   The sh...t is starting to hit the fan as racers start to learn about this new rule, a friend of mine called me wanting to know what the hell was going on as fast freddy and foggie had just looked at his Camaro and informed
him his car wasn't going to pass inspection. His reply  you guys are making racers park their cars.   
  Last year I purchased the lateral side support roll bar padding thats required by NHRA for the fuel cars, this padding is 15 inchs long 6 in wide 3'' thick and tapers for half its length to 3/4 in thick, anybody on the rule committee friggen know why it tapers.

  Anyhow I want this as a record so in the future [when someone gets trapped in their car and dies] and someone ask what were they thinking, how come nobody apposed this?


                          JL222

   

     

[interested bystander]

JL, no doubt  ,and most recently thanks to John (he's all NHRA has) Force's embarrassing incident with the car breaking in two and dodge near being punted by Bernstein there has been what yrs truly would call KNEE JERK reaction to some of the  safety standards and time may prove you right.

In that vein, I think some of the safety equipment purveyors have lobbied for their product to be exclusively being written into certain specs. Smells of corruption to Me.

I stand firm on the HANS device, though. The fact that a then healthy GM and Daimler Benz underwrote its development to save the necks of their contracted drivers - talk to ANYBODY that raced for Pontiac at the HANS introduction for instance - no HANS - no corporate money! And its MANDATORY use in F1 for its $prima - donnas$.

[dw230]

IB,

"In that vein, I think some of the safety equipment purveyors have lobbied for their product to be exclusively being written into certain specs. Smells of corruption to Me."

Can you point to page and section? I read the book almost every day and don't recall where this is.

JL222 - have you asked Lee Kennedy where the measurments will be taken? I don't think that any one, except maybe Nathan Stewart, knows the answer to your question.

[jl222]

 

  Dan, it would help to know were the measurements will be taken from before construction.
  Let it be noted that even the $500 NHRA spec lateral movement head restraint is illegal under SCTA rules.

  IB..I've posted before how the hans restraint manufactures are salivating at the mouth over the SCTA ruling
and now the Lexan manufactures. [ recent deletion of prices on web sites ] Glad we have a Camaro as the Lexan
is available. Oh I forgot SCTA thinks theres no problem just make those compound bends, no problem.
  Like I told Foggie at a party recenly no problem go  ahead print them no problem. [ for me, except the $2000]
  And as he and fast Freddy found out recently the sh..ts starting to hit the fan.

                       JL222


                               
 

[interested bystander]

Mr. DW

"...CERTAIN SPECS. . ."  did you ever think that statement might refer to OTHER race sanctioning bodies and was worded that CERTAIN way and the wrirter had no intention of including SCTA/BNI in the statement.

Personally, I believe the collective wisdom of SCTA/BNI, being ALL racers and non - commercial is a lot smarter than you seem to take me.

Although there are some dumb rules. (Two different Modified Roadster categories for staters).

You quit Landracing before for, I assume, taking things WAY too personally.

Chill and enjoy!

With respect,

IB

[Milwaukee Midget]

JL222 - let me see if I have this straight.

You believe the deletion of price sheets on the web is due to a decision by the SCTA?

As for the "recent deletion of prices on websites", I doubt that the LSR community has the buying clout to change the practices of an entire industry to that degree.  It doesn't make economic sense.

I think if price lists are being pulled, it's likely to have a lot more to do with $90.00/barrel oil than the roll out of polycarbonate windows into, what, maybe 200 - 500 specialty cars for a hobby sport.

As for the salivating head and neck restraint lobby, they'll sell quite a few more products to the go cart community then to LSR racers.

Call me naive, but I'm just not seeing this as the big conspiracy. 



 

[Bob Drury]

  Milwaukie, I agree that the word " conspiracy" as used by others may be a little strong, but I would place a bet that the majority of LSRacers are, like me, low buck. 
  I am lucky to not be affected by the window rule (at this time), but I have to budget $2500. per trip, not including the race car itself.
  The NHRA has seen a sudden drop in Alcohal Funny Cars since they mandated carbon fiber brakes, which are mega-bucks.
  I back the SCTA decision about replacing the Frameless glass in newer cars, but I totally emphasize with the racers involved.
  I know the SCTA does not want to be put in a awkward position, but I wonder if it would be possible for them to facilitate a bulk purchase or possibly find a vendor who would give the racers a "group" discount.
  Paying retail for Lexan is a tough pill to swallow for those of us with open trailers.................  Bob

[jl222]

JL222 - let me see if I have this straight.

You believe the deletion of price sheets on the web is due to a decision by the SCTA?

As for the "recent deletion of prices on websites", I doubt that the LSR community has the buying clout to change the practices of an entire industry to that degree.  It doesn't make economic sense.

I think if price lists are being pulled, it's likely to have a lot more to do with $90.00/barrel oil than the roll out of polycarbonate windows into, what, maybe 200 - 500 specialty cars for a hobby sport.

As for the salivating head and neck restraint lobby, they'll sell quite a few more products to the go cart community then to LSR racers.

Call me naive, but I'm just not seeing this as the big conspiracy.  



 

  Yea ....your probably right about the Lexan but this one company did delete their prices last year before oil was at it's current
price and after we had talked to them, but the hans devices, if you multiply all SCTA/BNI cars by [ what over 500 entries and not everybody is there at once] say 700 x $600 is $420,000 enough to make small companys SMILE

                     JL222



        
  

[Milwaukee Midget]

There were probably discussions like this when 5-point harnesses were first mandated.

420 K is hardly a lot of money in the grand scheme, especially when you consider that Safety Solutions is cutting into Hans' sales, these things aren't cheap to produce, and there are liability costs.

And while I'm certain the makers of the Hans and Hybrid solutions pieces are grateful for our business, a market the size of two McMansions in a new subdivision isn't going to cover the CEO's bonus.  We are small potatoes.

I'm not unsympathetic to the small racer.  I am one.  Bob, you mentioned trailers - I had to rent a U-haul last year.

I guess my point is that we're at the table, and the ante's been raised, for arguably rational reasons.  I don't feel gouged or used by any of this - it's the cost of playing the game.

[dw230]

IB,

OK, understood.

I may be sensitive to comments about rules and rule book. I want the racers to have a positive influence on the rules and encourage their input. Witness the changes made to the 2011 rule book for lateral movement and window replacement from this message board.

I will defend the people who spend their time and resources to put a rule book together so that we can time our cars. Notice I did not say race in respect to Jack Costella who claims we are not racing. I do not condone negative comments about the rules with no solution offered or to the people who are trying their best.

As to the confused Mod Roadster rules, please take the time to contact those who may have some control over the changes you think need to be made. There is a process to submit rule changes, please take advantage of it.

To all who submit a change request, if your request does not become law do not think that your input is not valued. Each and every submitted change is reviewed and discussed. I have spoken to Mike Manghelli and from 2011 forward we will contact those that have submitted a change with the results from the committee meetings. We have been lax in that area in the past.

DW

[desotoman]

if you multiply all SCTA/BNI cars by [ what over 500 entries and not everybody is there at once] say 700 x $600 is $420,000 enough to make small companys SMILE

                     JL222

If you are talking about entries at speedweek don't forget there are a few motorcycles in the entry list. Speedweek entries 2010 were 381 cars, 180 bikes, and not all cars have windshields, but hey I am a Roadster toad. LOL.

Tom G.