new 2011 rule changes

[dw230]

I have sent John's request from last year on to Mike Manghelli for inclusion on this year's agenda.

Thank you, John

I also recieved some info from desotoman and 4-barrel mike that I needed. Thanks to both of you.

DW

[RichFox]

  I also feel that vacuum cleaners would be a fast way to pick up glass and save racers a lot of money and what happens if a racer cant't find a replacement window?

                 JL222

   

 
 

I didn't even think about buying a replacement window. Never occurred to me that such a thing would be out there. I cut my own windows for the '32. So I cut my own window for the Vega. If the racer can't find a replacement window he makes one. Question answered.

[bvillercr]

   

 
 
[/quote] I didn't even think about buying a replacement window. Never occurred to me that such a thing would be out there. I cut my own windows for the '32. So I cut my own window for the Vega. If the racer can't find a replacement window he makes one. Question answered.
[/quote]

A vega window is fairly flat a square, some decklid windows like ours is curved down all the way to the weather stripping with no side support.  Would be difficult to shape or reproduce ourselves.  There is no comparison and would affect our aero tremendously.

[RichFox]

When I was working at the Airline we used Lexan a lot. I have seen it bent in a sheet metal brake without heat. Stuff is pretty forgiving. I only know from my experience. Your results may vary.

[jl222]

When I was working at the Airline we used Lexan a lot. I have seen it bent in a sheet metal brake without heat. Stuff is pretty forgiving. I only know from my experience. Your results may vary.

  Yea right no problem, not for us except for about $1100 or $1200 if you buy the door clips to keep the side windows on at speed. Looks like they make everything for Camaros.
  Anybody see that video of the Lexon rear window coming off a Camaro?
  I wonder how good those rear window would be at sealing out dust at El Mirage?
  Lets hope that the rule committee does't rush into this without some reasearch on fabrication and avallability.


                            JL222

   It's also no problem spending someone else's money

        

[Milwaukee Midget]

I guess I'm fortunate in that the windows on the Midget are essentially flat - for me, it's doable, but certainly not desirable, and I suspect it could be less safe than safety glass. 

On a production car with no frame or channel on the top or back of the side windows, I could easily see where Lexan would flex out at speed - it's just not as rigid as safety glass.  That in itself could cause a safety problem - it could actually compromise the drivers operating environment.  One could forsee a situation where the window might be sucked out far enough on the back edge or the top to pull it out of the top of the front channel, moving it farther into the windstream and creating a cockpit hazard.

I'm certain there are a lot of other cars - primarily production cars - on which the door window frame design would be incompatible with a more flexible replacement. 

I'll do what I can to to make it legal, but if doing so actually makes my car less safe, then I'm going to have to rethink as to whether or not I'm willing to race.  It would be unwise to make a safety modification to a car that could, in fact, make it less safe.

[bvillercr]

MM, nicely said.  I agree completely.

[desotoman]

These guys make all kinds of lexan replacement windows, front, rear, and side. Even for Camaro's.

Tom G.

http://www.proglasswindows.com/

[maguromic]

Troy, GM and others made lexan windows for the Camaro for use in IMSA and Trans-Am, and there is lots of this stuff around for cheap.   Try Jim Derhaag at http://derhaag.com he has some of the older Camaro parts. The windows are on the bottom of this page  http://derhaag.com/store-accessories.htm If he doesn’t let me know and I will ask up at the track, there always someone with that stuff lying around. There is no need to pay top dollar in this economy.  Tony

[bvillercr]

Tony thanks, we will have to call and see if they older models.

Tom, where can I find chevy parts? 

Thanks for the links guys.

[desotoman]

Troy,

From ProGlass website:

Tom G.

Let’s say you are looking for windows for your 1968 Camaro, well, you have come to the right place.  Here at Pro Glass we sell that kit along with MANY others.

PS. I think Harwood sells them also.

[Milwaukee Midget]

Tom, thanks for the link.  But availability isn't the only issue.

I'm seeing in this link pictures of rear and none-opening quarter windows, and side windows that are framed and/or inserted in channels which hold the Lexan around the entire perimeter, but nothing in the way of a frameless side window that's only supported on the bottom and runs in a channel on the front.  That's not an uncommon arrangement. 

Would the unframed and unsupported edges be ridged enough to prevent it from pulling out from the car at speed?  I can say that the safety glass on my MGB doesn't, but Lexan?  I think it's too flexible to be used unframed, and would likely start to flap back and forth at speed.

I'm not knocking Lexan.  But the very property which makes it easy to work with, its flexibility, in certain production cars, could make it uniquely unsafe when used in side windows.  I just don't think it's stiff enough.

[dw230]

Chris,

The rules require front and rear window clips at a certain speed level. Nothing, I repeat, nothing prevents a person from adding clips to the side windows. If a builder thinks there may be a problem  they can come up with a solution. If it were me, I wouldn't wait for the rulebook to tell me at what speed I must add clips.

DW

[Milwaukee Midget]

Chris,

The rules require front and rear window clips at a certain speed level. Nothing, I repeat, nothing prevents a person from adding clips to the side windows. If a builder thinks there may be a problem  they can come up with a solution. If it were me, I wouldn't wait for the rulebook to tell me at what speed I must add clips.

DW

Clips - absolutely, where they can be made to work.  My concern is production based hardtops, where the door windows can't be clipped on the top and back.  I still think that there's too much flexibility in Lexan to make that type of application safe. 

I would like to see the new rule before I tear my doors apart.  Any word as to when this might be finalized?

Dan, thanks for chiming in on this one.  It was a pleasure finally meeting you in September. 

Chris

[Dynoroom]

Chris,

The rules require front and rear window clips at a certain speed level. Nothing, I repeat, nothing prevents a person from adding clips to the side windows. If a builder thinks there may be a problem  they can come up with a solution. If it were me, I wouldn't wait for the rulebook to tell me at what speed I must add clips.

DW

Clips - absolutely, where they can be made to work.  My concern is production based hardtops, where the door windows can't be clipped on the top and back.  I still think that there's too much flexibility in Lexan to make that type of application safe. 

I would like to see the new rule before I tear my doors apart.  Any word as to when this might be finalized?

Dan, thanks for chiming in on this one.  It was a pleasure finally meeting you in September. 

Chris

Just a thought, don't NHRA Pro Stockers use lexan side windows? Yes I know the answer but it might answer your question.

As a side note I've been involved in severial cars that had windows that pushed away from the cockpit at high speeds (235 mph for a '68 vette & 250 mph for a genIII firebird) the issue is the drivers compartment is higher pressure than the air passing over the window (low pressure) thus "pulling" the window out of its track. We built tabs to hold the windows in.

Bottom line is the same can be done with lexan. 'cause I can tell you the people in line sure do seem to get restless when the course is down to clean up window glass for over an hour.

JMO