new 2011 rule changes

[Bob Drury]

  T Salt,  go to your racecar, place your helmet aproximately where your head would be.  Now imagine the drivers side restraint plate or bar clear to the front of the helmet.
  Your periferal vision is now essentaly blocked to the left, and if you lower it to the bottom so you can see, imagine trying to get out without catching your Hans type device, helmet, tethers, etc.
  If you move it to the top, you risk snapping your neck in a side impact.
  Obviously vision to the right will be equally impaired.
  Unless you run in a class with a mandated "funny car" type cage, ala roadsters, this is going to be a mess to deal with on existing cars.
  I am 6' 3" and 245 lbs.  There are drivers larger than me.  We aint all gymnasts, and able to turn ourselves into a pretzel.
  If they enforce this rule, the Nascar style seats cannor possibly be called legal without major modifications.  I didn't think they were in accordance with the rules last year either.  Bob

[SPARKY]

Bob I feel your pain I am exactly your size.

 But I have seen the in car video that promted this---I would rather be trying to get out than be in the car with a broken neck because my helmet CAUGHT out side of the cage when my straps STRETCHED that far in the flip.

[Bob Drury]

  Sparky, then lets mandate different belts, not re-engineer the whole darned structure.    Bob

[jl222]

Bob I feel your pain I am exactly your size.

 But I have seen the in car video that promted this---I would rather be trying to get out than be in the car with a broken neck because my helmet CAUGHT out side of the cage when my straps STRETCHED that far in the flip.

  Sparky... if your reffering to the Thompson video, if the belts had been mounted to SCTA specs and if he were strapped in tighter he would not have moved as far. Review the video he's moving up and down inside the belts.

                  JL222

[SPARKY]

I agree that the mounting is too high---but an awfull lot of that up and down is probabally spinal compression.

 You take a high g impact the belts better stretch or they aren't helping lessen the G loading much.

[Milwaukee Midget]

I'm thinking a hinged lateral restraint in the entrance side with a clevis pin arrangement and a rip cord attached to the window net.  Pull the net down, the pin comes out, you flip the front part of the new restraint out of the way, and like Houdini, you're out.

[saltfever]

Edit . . .You take a high g impact the belts better stretch or they aren't helping lessen the G loading much.

Finally, it has been mentioned. Stretch is a good thing (within reason).  . . It attenuates the G-force. Obviously, is should not be to the point you collide with things, but you need some stretch. After the Thompson video some comments inferred that no stretch was better. I.e., the polyester vs. nylon discussions.

Now to another point. You need lateral cushioning on either side of the helmet. The new rule says . . . provide restriction to lateral head movement of less than 2 in. per side inclusive of structure deflection . . .When you look at NASCAR seats some seats look like they have 2”-3” of cushion on each side. Has anyone measured the foam on a NASCAR Seat?  I would like to have at least two inches or more of foam on each side plus some air space so the helmet and eyeballs don’t rattle. Does “inclusive of structure deflection” mean you can only have a maximum of 2” between the helmet and steel, with foam stuffed in the 2” space? Or can you have 2” of foam and 1 or 2” of air for some freedom? Is 2” on each side enough space for the foam as well as a little air space so there is no helmut contact with the vibrating structure?

[saltfever]

5.D.3    Gas Coupe - /BGC, /GC  
A replacement radiator of the same height and width and mounted in the original location as OEM shall be used.  Blocking of air flow thru the radiator in front or behind is not allowed.

The intent is clear but here is the problem. How do you run 800Hp through a Vega radiator? Gas class can be an engine swap. If the car originally had a very small radiator you can’t run “same height and width” if you swap in a big motor! Even with an OEM motor (like the Cohn’s Monza) what do you do when it puts out 5 x HP?  I don't know of a single gas coupe that can meet this rule. Seriously, what do I do . . .  
 

[maguromic]

I think the rule was designed to keep guys from building air conditioning condenser style radiators with very tight fin counts to block the air.    But I don’t think it will stop them.   Just look at a NASCAR speedway radiator, interesting fin counts they have. Just my two cents.  Tony

[saltfever]

I am not quibbling with the intent of the rule. Obviously, this rule as many LSR rules, is trying to prevent an undue aero advantage. But English is my first language . . . this rule is clear. Same height and width as OEM will outlaw just about every gas coupe running! The picture above is one of the winningest "Classic" cars out there. Look at the top radiator mount (the purple thingie). See how short it is. That is the OEM width. Look at his radiator!  Seriously, most gas coupes had small OEM radiators. Just look at the HP those cars have now.

If the intent is to stop obstructions (like a gas tank) in front of, or back of the radiator . . . I get it. But it doesn't say that. Gas coupe is mostly about engine swaps. Yeah, QC or non-stock blower, moves you into GC. But the HP is always greater than stock. You can't run an OEM-size radiator. This rule forces you to go thicker which is an air restriction and defeats the purpose of the rule. What is going on . . . 

[SPARKY]

A lot of folks run a remote mounted radiator in a tank system---run the heater hoses at most through the stock radiator.

[gearheadeh]

Edit . . .You take a high g impact the belts better stretch or they aren't helping lessen the G loading much.

Finally, it has been mentioned. Stretch is a good thing (within reason).  . . It attenuates the G-force. Obviously, is should not be to the point you collide with things, but you need some stretch. After the Thompson video some comments inferred that no stretch was better. I.e., the polyester vs. nylon discussions.

Now to another point. You need lateral cushioning on either side of the helmet. The new rule says . . . provide restriction to lateral head movement of less than 2 in. per side inclusive of structure deflection . . .When you look at NASCAR seats some seats look like they have 2”-3” of cushion on each side. Has anyone measured the foam on a NASCAR Seat? I would like to have at least two inches or more of foam on each side plus some air space so the helmet and eyeballs don’t rattle. Does “inclusive of structure deflection” mean you can only have a maximum of 2” between the helmet and steel, with foam stuffed in the 2” space? Or can you have 2” of foam and 1 or 2” of air for some freedom? Is 2” on each side enough space for the foam as well as a little air space so there is no helmut contact with the vibrating structure?

This is what Iam wondering too?

[Peter Jack]

Polyester belts still stretch and absorb some of the impact, it's just that they don't stretch excessively like nylon.

Pete

[JR529]

5.D.3    Gas Coupe - /BGC, /GC  
A replacement radiator of the same height and width and mounted in the original location as OEM shall be used.  Blocking of air flow thru the radiator in front or behind is not allowed.

The intent is clear but here is the problem. How do you run 800Hp through a Vega radiator? Gas class can be an engine swap. If the car originally had a very small radiator you can’t run “same height and width” if you swap in a big motor! Even with an OEM motor (like the Cohn’s Monza) what do you do when it puts out 5 x HP?  I don't know of a single gas coupe that can meet this rule. Seriously, what do I do . . .  
 

A replacement radiator can be bigger than stock, just not smaller. It was discussed having it say "at least the same height...." at the rule meeting but it was decided that it was not necessary.

[Dynoroom]

5.D.3    Gas Coupe - /BGC, /GC  
A replacement radiator of the same height and width and mounted in the original location as OEM shall be used.  Blocking of air flow thru the radiator in front or behind is not allowed.

The intent is clear but here is the problem. How do you run 800Hp through a Vega radiator? Gas class can be an engine swap. If the car originally had a very small radiator you can’t run “same height and width” if you swap in a big motor! Even with an OEM motor (like the Cohn’s Monza) what do you do when it puts out 5 x HP?  I don't know of a single gas coupe that can meet this rule. Seriously, what do I do . . .  

As racers we seem to whine sometimes. But then as racers we think of a way to get around problems all the time. weather it's making more power from a small engine or making a stock body just a bit more aero.

The answer to this question has been around for decades........
It's called a water tank.   Also note the rule only gives outside demensions, not thickness.

Oh, and as far as gas coupes go, I can point out many who use a stock size radiator..... some running over 1400 hp. Go figure.....