Author Topic: new 2011 rule changes  (Read 103127 times)

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Offline Dynoroom

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Re: new 2011 rule changes
« Reply #105 on: November 20, 2010, 03:11:02 PM »
The simple answer is they all past but 1. Minor refinements to a couple. Went fairly smooth compared to some board meetings in the past. I didn't see anyone pull a knife or anything.  :evil:

I think that was due to the efforts of all the committee and board members doing their homework, trying to make concise rules and being prepaired.
Good job guys.  8-)
Michael LeFevers
Kugel and LeFevers Pontiac Firebird

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Racing is just a series of "Problem Solving" events that allow you to spend money & make noise...

Offline bvillercr

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Re: new 2011 rule changes
« Reply #106 on: November 20, 2010, 03:15:28 PM »
I talked to Gene Barbee about the rules vote at the Board/Reps meeting last night; but like most retired guys he couldn't remember much....Hey it was last night not this morning........JD (I'll wait for DW, then read the whinners comments)
:roll:

Blue

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Re: new 2011 rule changes
« Reply #107 on: November 20, 2010, 04:39:53 PM »
I didn't see it mentioned here so I thought I would ask:

My favorite engine builder said there was a proposal to make all cars going over 250 mph use full frames;  i.e. no unibody cars without the "2nd gen nascar" treatment.  Since this would obsolete more current CC's than allow, I thought it was a little extreme.  Any info out there?

Personal note: I'm building a CC starting with an early '90's unibody chassis with a full cage installed.  Keeping the unibody is soooooo much less work for suspension, drivetrain, and body panel mounting that we couldn't do the project otherwise.

Offline Dynoroom

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Re: new 2011 rule changes
« Reply #108 on: November 20, 2010, 05:15:58 PM »
I didn't see it mentioned here so I thought I would ask:

My favorite engine builder said there was a proposal to make all cars going over 250 mph use full frames;  i.e. no unibody cars without the "2nd gen nascar" treatment.  Since this would obsolete more current CC's than allow, I thought it was a little extreme.  Any info out there?

Personal note: I'm building a CC starting with an early '90's unibody chassis with a full cage installed.  Keeping the unibody is soooooo much less work for suspension, drivetrain, and body panel mounting that we couldn't do the project otherwise.

No such rule went through committee.
Michael LeFevers
Kugel and LeFevers Pontiac Firebird

Without Data You're Just Another Guy With An Opinion!

Racing is just a series of "Problem Solving" events that allow you to spend money & make noise...

Blue

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Re: new 2011 rule changes
« Reply #109 on: November 20, 2010, 05:25:34 PM »
On the Lexan/film/debris debate, I know the rules committee has already voted and the following is just M2c from years of track crew work and fab experience with compound curved acrylic.

Vacuuming up 1/8th" shards of transparent glass shards on a salt surface over miles of track is not practical.  From personal experience, it was impractical on dark, hard pavement on a far more limited track!  If we couldn't sweep it with a broom, it was left for everyone's vehicle to "displace" in subsequent sessions.  

For vacuuming: One, it's too easy to miss things especially in soft salt conditions where the salt debris is thicker than the size of the glass particles.  Two, the salt will toast those vacuum motors pretty quick;  I'd wonder how long the ones they use last and what the crews (smart, experienced people) hose them with both before and after race week.  ACF-50 would be my choice.

JL222 and Bvllercr are right:  compound curves in glass, transparent films, or plastics bite the big one.  With film it's no big deal, we just add seems and overlaps.  With acrylic or Lexan the degree of hassle is proportional to the square of the thickness and the degree of compound.  I will post methods for anyone interested.  As far as the Firebird and Camaro rear windows go, they're close to flat-wrap:  GM is not stupid and compound is more expensive than flat-wrap.  If we can wrap film, we can bend Lexan.  If we can't, it's a major b---ch.  Film inside AND outside would be good along with some specification of type of film and age (see below).

As far as deflection due to pressure goes, to use Lexan at high speeds I'd add LOTS of stiffeners on the inside with nice, big fender washers to the surface and a full frame (like rally cars, good picture there).  If it bends, add more.  The cockpit is always under more pressure than the air going around it, in aircraft we call this "blowing out" the glass.  We have this issue with every new design.  It is solved with either decreasing the gauge of the acrylic to the point that it will handle the compound curve during forming or adding supports so that the size of each piece is decreased along with the degree of compound (look at Glasair vs. Lancair).  Only one high-performance aircraft in the last 30 years didn't have a full frame on a big canopy (Venture) and everyone with that aircraft changed to a full frame for all of reasons raised on this board by some pretty smart people.

Last note: All, and I mean ALL, elastomers and hydrocarbon polymers (acrylic, Lexan, film, etc.) age due to oxidation with time, altitude, and UV exposure.  Some films are more resilient to this (3M), some aren't (bare Lexan, tint film).  I'm speaking to the experienced (and therefore, professional) racers here:  All of you take a great deal of care (and pride) in your vehicles and safety equipment far beyond the rules requirements.  Do the research on the options and make reasoned decisions on window materials, films, and reinforcements within and beyond the rules.  As you do now, and have done for years.  This is a time vs. money issue:  learning more about the subject will enable everyone to fab their own safe solutions at low cost vs. blowing a lot of money on someone else's.  

Blue

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Re: new 2011 rule changes
« Reply #110 on: November 20, 2010, 05:31:27 PM »
No such rule went through committee.
Thank you, I didn't think so.  I do trust my source though, so someone is thinking of it.

Offline fredvance

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Re: new 2011 rule changes
« Reply #111 on: November 22, 2010, 06:48:36 PM »
Dan, are you back from your yachting expedition?? :? The suspense is killing me.
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Offline Buickguy3

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Re: new 2011 rule changes
« Reply #112 on: November 23, 2010, 11:59:24 AM »
  I'm wearing out my refresh button. :-D :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: Time for Budweiser engineering.
Doug
I keep going faster and faster and I don't know why. All I have to do is live and die.
                   [America]

Offline dw230

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Re: new 2011 rule changes
« Reply #113 on: November 23, 2010, 02:45:45 PM »
I finished the format for public release. I am waiting for approval before I can release the info.

Now I have to go estimates for the damage to my truck while I was away. 19 years ago it seemed like a good idea to have another kid, wrong.

On a happier side, if you have a chance to visit the Queen Mary in Long Beach Harbor I suggest a trip. Very interesting and a nice stay at competitive hotel prices.

DW
White Goose Bar - Where LSR is a lifestyle
Alcohol - because no good story starts with a salad.

Don't be Karen, be Beth

Offline desotoman

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Re: new 2011 rule changes
« Reply #114 on: November 23, 2010, 03:00:58 PM »

Now I have to go estimates for the damage to my truck while I was away.

DW




Dan,

Be happy it was your truck, it could have been your Roadster, if you still have it.

Tom G.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2010, 05:36:35 PM by desotoman »
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Offline SPARKY

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Re: new 2011 rule changes
« Reply #115 on: November 23, 2010, 03:09:47 PM »
Glad you guys had a nice time, will put it on my bucket list------hopefully no personal injuries involved with the kid!!!!!!
Miss LIBERTY,  changing T.K.I.  to noise, dust, rust, BLUE HATS & hopefully not scrap!!

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller

We are going to explore the racing N words NITROUS & NITRO!

Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: new 2011 rule changes
« Reply #116 on: November 23, 2010, 03:16:05 PM »
Now I have to go estimates for the damage to my truck while I was away. 19 years ago it seemed like a good idea to have another kid, wrong.

We trust your kid is okay, although I wouldn't want to have been in their shoes when you got home.

Sounds like you can pilot the truck to the body shop - but being down a vehicle is always a PITA.
"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

Offline Billy @ AHG

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Re: new 2011 rule changes
« Reply #117 on: November 23, 2010, 05:41:54 PM »
Time for Budweiser engineering :cheers:      Can I get an AMEN from the congregation ?
Salt Junkie

Offline Kool Performance

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Re: new 2011 rule changes
« Reply #118 on: November 23, 2010, 09:24:24 PM »
What was the final decision concerning glass and safety film.

Offline SPARKY

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Re: new 2011 rule changes
« Reply #119 on: November 23, 2010, 09:46:11 PM »
Here's to  :cheers: Bingenginering

Be nice to know which one didn't pass  :-)
« Last Edit: November 24, 2010, 08:51:12 AM by SPARKY »
Miss LIBERTY,  changing T.K.I.  to noise, dust, rust, BLUE HATS & hopefully not scrap!!

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller

We are going to explore the racing N words NITROUS & NITRO!