Australian Belly Tank

[Dr Goggles]

I do not think that running case vacuum pumps on wet sump engines is a good idea as it can lower the inlet pressure to the oil pump to the extent that the pump may cavitate, which of course leads to lack of lubrication and ultimate failure.Rex

We haven't got a pump Rex , it's just a home made vac-u-pan sing exhaust velocity to produce vacuum......it was a Dolan suggestion , it makes a decent amount of vacuum even at idle if my "tip of the finger gauge is reading properly .

[maj]

Done the opposite thing for priming the oil system a local gm v8 (253ci) there a known terror for getting prime,and not simple to do a mechanical prime ... easiest fix was an airhose into the dipstick tube and give it a few seconds pressure as you crank the engine , crank pressures or lack of can have a lot more influence than simple windage..
Where was your crankcase vent exiting from, as mentioned if from the head  it could have also severely limited the oil return, better from the valley cover and use a oil seperating or catch tank with return to below oil level  (gunna need a bigger bellytank    )

[Reverend Hedgash]

... and use a oil seperating or catch tank with return to below oil level  (gunna need a bigger bellytank    )

Actually we have a little bit of space under the seat just in front of the donk that is empty looking for a use. Maybe this is it!

rH+

[Dr Goggles]

Where was your crankcase vent exiting from, as mentioned if from the head  it could have also severely limited the oil return

Ya know, I'd been wondering that all along....air moving up whilst oil trying to move down through a narrow passage......how much air we don't know but as a matter of course it would make sense to go to the case breather instead of the head...........

[wobblywalrus]

It might be a good idea to instrument this motor after it is modified, put it on an engine dyno, and make a pull that simulates a run down the salt.  A post dyno session tear down can verify that the engine is safe to run.  "Dyno Testing and Tuning" by Harold Bettes and Bill Hancock ISBN 978-1-932494-49-5 (Brooklands Books Australia, 3/37-39 Green Street, Banksmeadow, NSW 2019, phone 2 9695 7055) describes this procedure.  It is a good reference.  We use it.

This is a complicated problem.  A real head scratcher.  Good luck with it. 

[Dr Goggles]

The motor is toast. It's already 40thou over ....

this just in from the Colonel

Alright
I have been to most of the local  engine blokes I know and a piston specific guy and a conrod guy
The basic consensus is too little piston to bore clearance
and not enough oil
It was noted that there was burnt oil in the recessed accumulator area between the top two rings
that there were no oil holes drilled in the oil ring lands for oil to get on the bores
and that the top of the gudgeon pin on the piston I had hawked around had turned blue
The other thing is that the pistons are 40thou hyperutectic. so the block is scrap
From this short motor we will be re using the rod bolts and main bearing studs both ARP
the rest will be going in the bin
Cheers
G

disappointing.....

we have a couple more blocks , one that I know for sure has never been licked...it comes down to whether we can use the later version so we don't have to do the cam thrust plate modification we were lining up for............

dull

dull

dull.

[Milwaukee Midget]

Well, the time has come.  It's time to finally build, from the ground up, a no-compromise, purpose-built land speed racing engine to go into your no-compromise, purpose-built land speed racing car.  A good thing.

Because from here on, you won't be guessin', you'll be knowin'.  It won't be something of questionable pedigree with a mysterious past.

Judging by the way the rest of the car turned out, it will be an exceptional engine.

The donk is dead, long live the donk.

[Nexxussian]

Doc, yeah it's been an increasingly larger PITA to get my computer to light off.

Probably due to it being an older home build.

I've picked up one of those new Windows phones, I'm posting this with it.

I'll have to see if that's a good thing or not.

[SPARKY]

 YEAH-donk  --now we are going to have an eng that will take advantage of those big heads and 2.77s---still no 2.56  7.5s on ebay --- may the donk RIP !

[generatorshovel]

Don't worry Doc,,,there's still 4 months left , use your credit card (again) the bank needs more profit 
( this night shift sux)
Tiny

[wobblywalrus]

Last winter I was in the same situation.  Mine was much less dramatic.  An engine based on standard parts was not good enough and I needed to build the motor for LSR.  The build was relatively easy - the hard part was finding the parts and advice on how to set the clearances.  I was lucky.  Triumph machined the engine correctly so it did not need to be blueprinted.  Finding pistons in the small size I needed was a problem.  They are available from only one source, as with the bigger valves.  The racing rods are not off-the-shelf items.  A batch of them was made a while ago and a fellow sold me a set from his personal supply.  He gave me the critical build information, too.  The Triumph engine build almost did not happen, several times.

It might be a good time to look at the engine options.  Are there the parts and expertise to blueprint and build a 200+ mph LSR motor with that brand of block?  Are Ford, GM, Dodge, better options?  Now is the time to look at all of the details and to plan everything out.

This is simply advice based on personal experience.
 

[Dr Goggles]

Hey Tiny,
we were at a wedding the other night , sitting opposite me is a "long time ago ex" she is a danger seeking film maker..she made a film about East Timor about the "civil" war when the Indo's left, she and her sister spent months living with the student rebel army on the Thai-Burma border ,she was in Kandahar when the coalition forces got there, she's run a Mexican restaurant in Kabul for the last five years.....I can't remember how the conversation started but I hear her say to Deb.."

I've got this mate I know from Afghanistan, Wilso".... I looked up,

"he takes me up to where he's from , Broken Hill"

I said," yeah, we know Wilso, has he got a mate Tiny?"

"dunno, he's got mates with names like Digger, Rusty, smoky...whatever...anyway we go to this pub.."

"Yeah" I say..."That'd be the Silverton"

"Where they're starting up this big motor on a stand"

"Ok" I said " let me guess, they were talking about getting rid of the mosquitoes?"

she looked at me and said "yeah, how?"....she holds up her phone and shows me a video......there was you in the backgound..hahahahaha

She wants to make a doco about guess what?



Anyway I digress...

on the motor front here is the recent communiques in-team about WTF we're going to do...

Alright
I have been to most of the local  engine blokes I know and a piston specific guy and a conrod guy
The basic consensus is too little piston to bore clearance
and not enough oil
It was noted that there was burnt oil in the recessed accumulator area between the top two rings
that there were no oil holes drilled in the oil ring lands for oil to get on the bores
and that the top of the gudgeon pin on the piston I had hawked around had turned blue
The other thing is that the pistons are 40thou hyperutectic. so the block is scrap
From this short motor we will be re using the rod bolts and main bearing studs both ARP
the rest will be going in the bin
Cheers
G

On 11/26/2010 10:24 PM, James Stewart wrote:
Pants.

Cheers indeed.

Ok we need to work out whether the manual crank will go into the VP block so as to avoid having to do the cam mod.

The other advantage of the VP block is we know it had never been bored...maybe it lost interest momentarily, but never bored .

I will get the VP block over to you Sunday so you can run your feelers up it, do you have anything to check the concentricity of the bores?

Now we're up against it, bad.


On 11/29/2010 8:59 AM, James Stewart wrote:
I sent as message to the guy who got that block and piston (yes Dik the one you sent the link to)set on eBay(it's been relisted) http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150525449821&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:AU:1123 ...first it was 8 then 7 now $600 they are the same pistons we had in the motor this year and its a freshly bored and (re)honed block....... much as I like the stroker set from Mace I dunno that we've got the readies right now.

dik wrote29/11/10
First of all, thanks for all the good work you two are putting in. Sorry I can't be of more help but you is the experts.
 
I understand the desire to be cheap and get the ebay unit but is it really cheap?
 
What else do we need to get/do for what result?
 
Do we then need to buy the stroker kit anyway for the next year?
 
I know we go through this conversation a few times, but I would rather pay more once than a lot more over time.
 
Can you explain to me the performance difference between the stroker kit and the other?
 
Yes $ are very tight my end ,so a viable economic improvement for next year is desirable but I just want to make sure it is indeed more economical and we don't suddenly have to shell out another $1000 for something in a hurry because something didn't fit.
 
Dik

JS wrote 29/11/10
They stroker kit would be fantastic, we get more torque from more cubes AND a longer throw crank( that's plain leverage) tit for tat the motor will tend to be less rev happy but with more torque it will pull a taller rear-end and boy-oh-boy do we have one of them.  We need to be sure it is under the 260ci limit of E class coz if it ain't we are at rock bottom of D class.
 
Ultimately that is how we will get the car to 240mph which is where I think I will be able to let it go.
 
What we do need to do is nail the oil mod stuff we've been shown, Bart from Just Commodores and Steve Angelovski( MACE) have been very helpful.
 
The 3 litre motor has to be able to rev beyond 7500rpm if we are to be in world class territory. That means some fairly expensive rods and most likely custom pistons, we will probably be throwing 5 to 8 grand at it from what I've worked out. We could build a budget version of it to get our names in the book but looking at it logically it will run out of puff at 150mph if we run 2.77:1 gears , to get it to 200+ it will need 3.08:1 and some serious revs, without wheel slip we need about 7407 to get 200.
 
It was a relief to see what had happened to the motor for some sort of explanation as to the way it behaved because as it was it was undriveable to anyone who didn't have self harm on their mind, seriously, it was like running as fast as I could , downhill, in the dark.
 
What we could do is put the new heads and the solid valve train together with the VP block we ran in 09 and just consolidate, it'll rev harder because the limiter is off and the heads and cam will make a lot more power. some folk  could do some licensing and chute runs and then someone could give it the slipper on it's last run to push it over 200
 
I fear we have left it too late to build a proper motor AND dyno it for next year.
 
what say?

[SPARKY]

The reason some EDM their rods is to take care of the wrist pins in high vacum motors  I run piston squiters for the same reason--as well as to help out on taking  heat out of the piston crown.  I bet with good rod bolts and some more clearance that little puppy would live at 7500 with piston squiters.

[Milwaukee Midget]

I fear we have left it too late to build a proper motor AND dyno it for next year.
 
what say?

Doc, you know what I'm going to say -

He who hesitates is lost.

You've got three pretty sharp heads on the case and 153 days.  It's still a strong hand. 

Fold? 
 
Double down. 

[generatorshovel]

Jeez Doc, you have (ex) eyes everywhere ?
The proposed doco would have to include 8 'rods being vomited from a 454 sump, home brand mozzie killer would be a cheaper option.
On your stroker thoughts,,I'd suggest a strong rever would be your best option, not something a stroker would be fond of ?
Work out the stroker piston speed @ your required revs and compare it to your stock stroke at its desired revs.
I foolishly thought I knew more than most, torque would get me through in '06,,it didn't,,my max rpm kept me constrained.
I now realise (yeah,,I'm slow) the more times your piston(s) can force theirselves at your crank, per second,,the more HP you get, until you hit the "want more gas, need space age rings" wall
I'm running an oil squirter in the postie now, after seeing 1340 degrees C on my EGT , in '06, BEFORE passing the 1st timer, Iv'e also added a ceramic thermal barrier coating to the piston crown, it's  cheap insurance.
Best wishes you blokes, it's your turn for the hat in 2011.
Tiny