Old M/C Records

[landracing]

While thumbing thru the rule book I came across a few records that I dont have the answer too. Maybe Dolan and Guthrie and others can help with this.

Why are Dave Matson, Dan Kinsey, Rayborn and Dave Campos siton and streamliner records NOT in a pushrod class. But rather in a non-pushrod class.

Dont you think it would have been appropriate when the inclusion of Pushrod classes that these be included into pushrod classes??

Jon

[landracing]

Scott,

I have heard about this letter you did, certain people speak very highly of all the hard work and research you did.

But that was in early 80's I believe that pushrod classes came in, There are records in 1988 that were pushrod engines still in a MPS-F etc status. When pushrod classes came in then the records should have been brought forward into the correct classes.... Right?

Jon

[landracing]

In 1989 I show no record of a pushrod class, but in 1990 I do, the pushrods came in. Then in 1993 the 1650cc class came into the picture for a place for them harleys'. In either 1994 or 1995 the 1300cc class became 1350cc.

Jon

[JackD]

It would seem the research ran counter to the objective.
Those names were forgotten but not gone and the objective was to forget them I guess.
The credability of the organization suffers when individual interests seem to dominate what is otherwise an amateur event.

[dwarner]

The letter to which Scott refers to would have been sent to Jack Dolan who was on the board at the time, I think. If not , then Dale Martin was the person I relied on to straighten out the records each year.

I have been contacted by some to fix their records, Tom Elrod among others. If I'm not contacted I can't fix it. If you want the records placed in the proper classes send me the list along with supporting paperwork and I'll handle it.

Posing this question in this manner is more akin to the way that FranklinRR uses a message board rather than the informational tool a board can be. There is absolutley NO behind the scenes conspiracy going on. I want the people who deserve recognition to get the credit due them.

DW

[JackD]

The question was based on research from the rule books and the documentation that Guthrie mentions was the result of a lot of work.
The result is less clear and in large part left to the memory of those involved.
When you make a lot of changes it is easy to cloud the results with an objective beyond the expected mistakes.
Expand and improve to follow the evolution of the sport and be careful of just changes.
The History of the sport is as important as it's future and depends on it.
The more people that have the courage to speak up , the better it will be, but the administration will still be a lot more work and should include a lot more people if nothing else but to watch.
While FR might be a pimple on the butt of the sport, it might speak more of the hygiene.

[dwarner]

Could that happen Dan?
*******************

Scott,

Yes, it could. If a faster record for a given class comes to light from the past then the simple answer will be to insert that record and lose the existing record.

The problem arises when there is a 2 club membership at stake as the result of the newer, slower record. The other fact is that without supporting paperwork an older record will not be re-instated. Now looking back over a 20-30 year span the needed paperwork may not be available. Record archiveing was not a priorty with the sports founders. As Jack mentions, word of mouth and reliance on memory are sometimes the only clues we have available.

JD Tone will do the research if given something to go with. He will not reward a record to anyone without investigation.


DW

[JackD]

The 2 clubs seems to be in pretty good shape and now less dependent on others and more responsive to it's objective.
While it is not perfect it is headed in the right direction.

[Bob Drury]

Speaking of the 200MPH Club, will someone please explain what  the phrase " established minimum over 200 MPH " means.  Does this mean the record can only be broken if some individual wants it to be or what?  Is it a percetage, or a formula, or a Ouegi board or the current temperature?  Inquiring minds want to know.

[Dynoroom]

Speaking of the 200MPH Club, will someone please explain what  the phrase " established minimum over 200 MPH " means.  Does this mean the record can only be broken if some individual wants it to be or what?  Is it a percetage, or a formula, or a Ouegi board or the current temperature?  Inquiring minds want to know.

Bob, The Bonneville 200 mph club established minimums due to the proliferation of classes to try and keep the club integrity (good or bad). An example would be F/BGS. The 2 club minimum is 250mph. In 2001 the class "E" record was 290 mph and the class "G" record was 250 mph (now also 290). That seems to make the "F" minimum reasonable (some will disagree). There was no record in F class until '02 when Kent Richies went 246 mph, this would not have allowed him entry into the 2 club but does give the next guy something to shoot at.
The only problem I have is that the minimums were not easy to find in the recent past. In 2002 the SCTA added a line in the rule book that says: The Bonneville 200 MPH Club records and minimums may not be identical to the SCTA/BNI records listed in this rule book.
The 2 club is a separate organization from the SCTA so chooses it's rules as it sees fit. I agree with them.

[JackD]

The minimums set by the 2 club predate "Proliferation" by a number of years and the statement in the book about the difference goes back that far.
When I was on the SCTA board, I made the motion to eliminate the minimums for Bonneville because the two organizations could not satisfy each other.  I believed the SCTA board should get out of the business and leave it to the 2 club. The board agreed and left it to them. In the first years, they only published minimums for cars. The principal adviser for the bikes was Don Vesco and at the time 200 was a real mark in a bike. Now you can buy a 200 mph bike with a warranty.
Times have changed and so has the 2 club.

[Bob Drury]

Well I sorta, kinda understand the theory, but where are these "minimum" speeds posted, and who decides who gets in and who doesn't?  I don't have a problem with rules, but the 200MPH club gets a lot of ink in both SCTA and National publications.  If this is a club with rules that are changed on a whim, I wonder why it is held in such high esteem?  I am not trying to start a war here, I just want to know how the minimums are set, and where a person can see the goal he or she is aiming for.

[1212FBGS]

Actually Jim Rotta had the FBGS record at 211 and I bumped it up to 246 and yes just a few away from the 2 club. No problem, I hope to go over 3 as soon as the salt will allow.
Kent

[dwarner]

Bob,

The minimums are posted on the website: www.bonneville200mph.org. You can also pick up a club booklet at any salt event.

Rules for club entrance are not set or changed on a whim. There is a dedicated board of directors who are constantly under the guidence of a membership which is more involved than the SCTA membership.

Basic club entrance requirements have not changed for 30+ years.

DW

[Bob Drury]

Thanx, Dan.  All I was trying to find out is if there is a specific way the minimums are set.  I guess I will keep on wondering.