Author Topic: XXO/BVGC '38 Chevy Coupe Build  (Read 1032005 times)

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Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: XXO/BVGC '38 Chevy Coupe Build
« Reply #975 on: March 07, 2012, 07:29:57 PM »
Just a thought - if I could get by with it, I'd exit the exhaust out the back.  Not for any speed advantage - but you can hear the rest of your engine better.  If something isn't right with the valve train, the belts, the ignition timing, whatever, the further isolated your hearing is from what I'm sure is going to be a screaming exhaust sound might be the difference between being able to back off and save an engine with an issue, and turning a lot of very nice work into scrap.

It's something I've been looking into.  My left ear took a beating at Maxton.  I could hear the exhaust, but I couldn't hear the valve train or the intake.  It wasn't until I pulled the valve cover when I got home that I realized I had run my clearances loose on the rockers.  Normally, I think I would have been able to hear that.

My 2 cents - worth maybe half.
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Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

Offline maguromic

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Re: XXO/BVGC '38 Chevy Coupe Build
« Reply #976 on: March 07, 2012, 10:52:33 PM »
I would use your exhaust to enhance what ever aero package you plan on running.  Based on how your aero is, running out the back may not be the best. I think with all the effort you and your team have put into the car and the engine package, I would build a model of the car and do some CFD runs to see the sweet spot for the exhaust.  Tony
“If you haven’t seen the future, you are not going fast enough”

Offline DND

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Re: XXO/BVGC '38 Chevy Coupe Build
« Reply #977 on: March 07, 2012, 11:16:40 PM »
Good point Tony, look at what the F1 troops are doing as they have been putting those pipes everywhere to get that little aero edge.

Don

Offline desotoman

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Re: XXO/BVGC '38 Chevy Coupe Build
« Reply #978 on: March 09, 2012, 02:01:04 PM »
Garry did some more flow work with our head. We had 166 CFM with a .050 head gasket. Garry then used a .10 head gasket, and got 172 CFM flow. After a little work on the transfer area, and the .10 head gasket, flow went to 188 CFM. Garry just surpassed 200 CFM on his engine.
 
So, it appears with a little more work to the transfer area, we can get the flow up, and use our .072 gaskets! :-D

Buddy,

I am glad the added head gasket thickness help with the flow in the transfer area.

Tom G.
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Offline BoredAndStroked

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Re: XXO/BVGC '38 Chevy Coupe Build
« Reply #979 on: March 10, 2012, 03:57:36 PM »
The Final Hours - Last of the Long Block:

Man, I must be an eternal optimist - it is always a much bigger job and takes so much more time than I think.  Guess that is why I talk myself into these projects in general!

The following is from Wednesday evening - night before Buddy arrived.   I needed to complete the assembly of the heads . . . which all of you flathead guys knows is a real PITA.  This is doubly true on a custom engine, where you built 'clam shell' heads, have never had studs in it before, etc..   You really don't know what you're in for. :eek:

1) Assembly Tip Preaching to the Choir:  When you have a custom engine (girdle, special mains, special crank, etc.) - it is a good idea to mark the girdle and block with your torque specs.  If this engine has a life beyond me messing with it (one can only hope!), wanted the "next guy" to know what to do.   

I stamped the girdle and the block with the torque settings for the mains, rods and the pan rails.   We use about a .005 crush on the main caps (from the steel girdle).  The stock specs call for about 150 lbs on the mains, but both Jeff and I didn't want to go that far . . . worried about cracking the block or pulling the webs out of it - so 130 it is.

2) Heads - Blue Gooooo:  The FlatCad has custom 2-piece clam shell heads.  Not only do we have to worry about sealing the deck surface, we have to worry about sealing the surfaces between the head pieces.  As we have solid copper head gaskets (from FlatOut) - with a rubberized coating on them and stainless O-rings in the heads (mandatory with solid copper gaskets), we wanted some extra sealing insurance.  (Who knows if even this will seal!).

a) Rubber O-Rings:  When Chris designed the heads, he put in some square grooves around the perimeter and the plug holes - then I put in the same bulk O-ring material that is frequently used on high-pressure blower manifolds.  Hopefully these O-rings, plus the hylomar will do the trick.

b) Hylomar:  This is a special non-setting polyurethane concoction that is used in the aircraft industry and many others for specialized sealing/gasket situations.  It is expensive and messy - costs about $55 for a brush on can (about 250 ml) and is available in a spray on can as well.   We're using both:

- Spray on was used to coat both sides of the head gaskets.   You spray one fairly thin coat and give it a few minutes to flash out the solvents (it never dries though).

- Brush on was used between the head pieces and also on the bottom of the blower manifold.

3) Head Studs:  @#%@#$$@#$!   These are one of those things that you know you need for blown applications, but you dread using them all the same.   I had temporary insanity - coated the coarse (block-side) threads with a special teflon thread sealer, put anti-seize on all the surface, put ALL of them in for one side in the block . . . and then with stupidity and optimism, tried to put the heads on! :cool:  You guessed it - not a chance in the world of putting a head on this way.  (I know better, but I guess I'm too stupid to remember what ALWAYS happens with flatheads - you just can't do it this way!).

So, then I took about 3/4 of the studs out - put the head gasket back on, put the head pieces on and THEN put the rest of the studs in . . . one by one.   I used anti-seize on all stud surfaces other than the coarse threads - don't forget to do this or you may never get the heads back off!

Also, we use hardened ARP 'hat washers' - that shoulder the stud and go down into the head.  These really help align the stud and ensure a good torque reading.  Also, they stop deformation/galling of the head itself.  The head design had machined pockets to accept this style of washer.

Okay - this method works . . .  here is one head on.   Notice the thin line of blue Hylomar coming out - this is actually a good sign that we have good clamping forces and hopefully a good seal.   This crap never hardens and about the only solvent that will cut it is MEK  (not nice stuff - be careful! :eek:).

Torque:   Stock iron heads are 70 lbs -- I didn't want to go that high.  I'd like to talk to some of the LSR boys and see how much they are using. (I used to go to 55 on my blown flathead Fords - but with limited boost).

I was conservative for now --> 50 lbs on the stock location studs and 35 on the 7 new ones that we added.   I did NOT want to torque the new studs too much as the deck is thin (no stud bosses), and it would be easy to crack the deck and ruin the block.  Again - nobody has experience with FlatCads, this is all semi-educated guess work at best.  :rolleyes:

My guess is that we'll increase the torque once the engine is warmed on the dyno - as head gasket issues and water sealing are typically some of the biggest issues to overcome on LSR flatheads.

:confused: Any experience on LSR torque on blown flatheads??? - please send me your thoughts!   Address:   dhays@tdci.com


Next:  The following post will show more pictures . . .
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Offline BoredAndStroked

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Re: XXO/BVGC '38 Chevy Coupe Build
« Reply #980 on: March 10, 2012, 03:58:43 PM »
More Pictures . . .

« Last Edit: March 10, 2012, 05:09:16 PM by BoredAndStroked »
Member of FlatCad Racing Team - 2011, 2012
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Offline BoredAndStroked

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Re: XXO/BVGC '38 Chevy Coupe Build
« Reply #981 on: March 10, 2012, 04:02:33 PM »
The Last Engine Thrash - and it was a Doosey!

Buddy arrived bright and early on Thursday - so ALL we needed to do was the final engine plumbing  (dry sump, oil, fuel and water), then a few last minute things . . .  and we'd be magically ready to pack it up.   Again - frigging optimism was our enemy . . . this was a LOT more work than even two people could do in a day.   But heck - that didn't stop us one dang bit from trying!

Late Thursday - Into Friday . . .  we quit at about 11:30 Thursday evening and started up again at 7:00 Friday morning.   It took all of Friday to complete the engine, pack up the truck with a TON of FlatCad stuff and load the engine.

Frigging Sickness :(:  I rarely get sick, but sure as hell . . . came down with a bad chest cold and a fever on Thursday - got really bad on Friday afternoon.  (My wife missed 3 days of work this week - and she is TOUGH!)

Shaking Like a Dog Crapping Razor Blades . . .  I was working the lathe with my darn teeth chattering the whole time -- fever, chills and coughing like hell.  I'm thinking to myself -- "am I nuts, this is just an engine and I'm killing myself over it???"  Can't tell you how many times I wanted to throw in the towel and tell Buddy "I just can't do this anymore today  . . . ".   Stuck it out - just needed to get it done.  :)   Okay - enough pathetic whining . . . wah, wah, wah . . .


Onto the Final Hours . . .

1) Plumbing Work: First of all, I had my opinion on how best to plumb the engine -- but knew that until Buddy arrived, it didn't make sense to do so.

It takes $500 - 700 just to plumb a dry sump . . . then add to that a more complex oiling system,  fuel, water, etc - you can see where this is headed! (too much time and money).  Thank gosh we'd bought most of the AN fittings/hose last summer - but we needed to flush out the rest.   Buddy's wallet screamed a bit, but that is just the way it goes with this crap.

2) Injector Pump Setup: We decided to move the injector pump from the original location on the back of the dry-sump pump  (no room for it) to the timing cover (standard stuff).   This required a pump extension to get it past the blower belt.  Luckily Fowler had these on the shelf and he quickly put together a 2.5" long version and I went and picked it up.   We talked to John Beck about the other fuel system lines and all he really needed was the pump mounted, the shut-off valve mounted and the single main feed line to the Enderle hat.   That saved us some time (at least for now).

3) Dry Sump Mandrel and Drive:  We use a custom drive mandrel (Fowler made) that mounts inside the crankshaft blower drive hub/support snout.  It uses a standard 1" drive hub to mount an HTD sprocket to drive the pump.  The mandrel needed to be shortened 1/2", and a new hub keyway cut . . . there goes another couple of hours.

4) Dry Sump Belt Tensioner:   I bought a little timing belt tensioner from Eslinger - just to have something to work with.   Had to figure out how to mount this to my dry sump mount and put a bit on tension on the belt.  We completed this about 10:30 last night.

5) Bitter Sweat . . . The End of the FlatCad Era in My Shop:  One side of me was happy to have completed the engine and hand it back to Buddy, the other side was a bit sad to see it go.   We've become close friends over the last 1.5 years (Buddy, me and the engine!), . . . so it was with some sadness that I saw it leave on the back of Buddy's truck.   On the other hand - I can now see my shop floor once again . . .  :D

Attached are the parting shots . . . packed up and Buddy's butt (he won't take pictures - even if you ask, he always hides!).  LOL!

Saturday:   I needed sleep very badly and hopefully get a bit better.   Just don't have time to be sick or for it to get worse.  I've taken most of the day off today, but there is much to do tomorrow.

Buddy is on his way back to Colorado -- he has to be beat tired as well and I only hope he doesn't get what was killing me . . . cause it will kick his rear in a bad way!


The Reality Gauge - Always Tough When it Stares You in the Face!:

We need to decide if we can make the dyno next week - we've really pushed it and need to stand back and make a realistic decision on what we need to do and when.  

Buddy is on a really tight schedule and I'm not sure he/we can do all that he plans in the very short time he has scheduled.  Isn't it always like that with this stuff?  

My Reality:  Some of this is a result of my over optimism and unrealistic aspirations.   I've over-committed and taken on too much at times - guess it is my nature. :rolleyes:    It is hard to stand back and be thoughtful and realistic when you're in the thick of the hunt.   We're all works in progress my friends - just need to keep learning along the way!

I'll let Buddy update you all on the infamous  'Next Steps' and associated schedule!

Parting Words:

I for one . . .  can't wait to see this beast on the dyno, then on the salt . . . these will be larger than life experiences -- and aren't they grand!

Be back soon my fellow LSR friends . . .  thanks for listening!

B&S
« Last Edit: March 10, 2012, 05:07:15 PM by BoredAndStroked »
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Offline Captthundarr

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Re: XXO/BVGC '38 Chevy Coupe Build
« Reply #982 on: March 10, 2012, 04:17:08 PM »
Dodge B&S you gotta love the self abuse. Love the build. :cheers:
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Offline Freud

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Re: XXO/BVGC '38 Chevy Coupe Build
« Reply #983 on: March 10, 2012, 04:19:39 PM »
B & S...........M A R V E L O U S  report.

You are to be commended on your posts.

FREUD
Since '63

Offline BoredAndStroked

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Re: XXO/BVGC '38 Chevy Coupe Build
« Reply #984 on: March 10, 2012, 05:10:40 PM »
B & S...........M A R V E L O U S  report.

You are to be commended on your posts.

FREUD

Thanks a bunch . . . helps keep me going to hear that others are willing to read by babble!
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Goal:  Have fun, make friends, be safe - learn as much as possible, contribute when I can and hopefully get in the books!

Offline Dr Goggles

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Re: XXO/BVGC '38 Chevy Coupe Build
« Reply #985 on: March 10, 2012, 05:47:30 PM »
It's such a great story, that flu ain't the only bug you're testing positive for bro. :cheers: :cheers:
Few understand what I'm trying to do but they vastly outnumber those who understand why...................

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Offline Buickguy3

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Re: XXO/BVGC '38 Chevy Coupe Build
« Reply #986 on: March 10, 2012, 06:51:16 PM »
  Great story, get well, and don't push beyond the limits [whatever those are].
   Doug :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
I keep going faster and faster and I don't know why. All I have to do is live and die.
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Offline desotoman

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Re: XXO/BVGC '38 Chevy Coupe Build
« Reply #987 on: March 10, 2012, 09:56:25 PM »
Buddy and Dale,

Best of luck on the dyno. Anyone willing to take a guess at the HP this beast will make. My guess is 550-600 HP depending on boost.

Tom G.
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Asking questions is one's only way of getting answers.

The rational person lets verified facts form or modify his opinion.  The ideologue ignores verified facts which don't fit his preconceived opinions.

Offline BoredAndStroked

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Re: XXO/BVGC '38 Chevy Coupe Build
« Reply #988 on: March 10, 2012, 10:25:31 PM »
Buddy and Dale,

Best of luck on the dyno. Anyone willing to take a guess at the HP this beast will make. My guess is 550-600 HP depending on boost.

Tom G.

If we somehow manage to hit 500, we'll all be happy pigs in crap . . . we need to be North of 450 to have any chance to push the FlatCad fast enough.   Putting an engine like this on the dyno is kind of like a 'Scary Christmas' -- you can't wait for the presents to come, but you're about half scared of what's inside.  :-D
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Offline bucketlist

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Re: XXO/BVGC '38 Chevy Coupe Build
« Reply #989 on: March 11, 2012, 12:31:31 AM »


 . . . helps keep me going to hear that others are willing to read by babble!

I've been quietly lurking, awestruck, if that helps any. That engine is a marvelous monument to the insanity that attracted me to LSR.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.