XXO/BVGC '38 Chevy Coupe Build

[BoredAndStroked]

" The only time I've seen folks knowingly give up horsepower is for consistency and/or reliability ."

AERO     

Now if you're saying it from a cost/benefit reason . . . I'm with yah!  It takes a lot less horsepower for a car with aero to go the same speed as one with bad aero.   

But - given two cars with the same aero . . . which one wins?   The one with more applied horsepower to drive the object through the air (assuming traction).

[Roseville Carl]

Hey Buddy are you guys going to be coming to Calif to do your dyno runs this year??

[38flattie]

Hey Buddy are you guys going to be coming to Calif to do your dyno runs this year??

Yes, Carl- we'll be back at Vintage Hot Rod, with John Beck.

One, if we don't go to the same dyno, the changes in numbers could be changes we made, or could just be because of the dyno.

Two, I really liked working with and learning from John Beck, and feel it helped us tremendously! John also helped us out while we were on the salt, and that kind of attitude is hard to find, let alone replace.

I hope you guys come over and join us again ! I'm planning on March.

[38flattie]

Here's an update from Randy Jackson, who's got the car at the moment. Randy lives 15 miles from dad, and is working on suspension and aero mods!


Well guys and gals looks like im going to be posting a bit here and there as aero progress is made. I had a shop full of great minds yesterday helping me with the aero design and thought process wzjunk (john kimbrough) hooley (Lloyd huffman) doug lee and colorado bill all of which have been to bonneville and been involved with record setting cars. As we make progress on this please dont hesitate to offer advice or constructive criticism as the flatcad crew welcomes any thoughts on design and or fabrication ideas. The crew helping with the aero design are not professional designers but have experience with what works and so far as hooley says "they've never steered me wrong" and i have to agree. Buddy will be posting some pics in the near future of progress as it happens. So stay tuned to the flatcad channel as our quest for 200 continues

[Roseville Carl]

Sounds cool Buddy we will be there, love to hear the Flat Cad make smoke!!!!!   

[38flattie]

Sounds great Carl! You're bringing Jim along again, I hope?

Those of you that know me, know that I'm pretty stubborn when I get something in my mind.

I keep thinking about our flow, and I truly believe we are leaving some available HP on 'the table'. I inquired about having the exopying and porting done, but it is cost prohibitive.

So, I've decided the only way to be successful at this venture is to get a flow bench. As time allows, I'm going to find and purchase a flow bench, and epoxy and port this beast, to get the most out of her!


Yea, it's a her- a guy could never sound that angry! Lol!

[38flattie]

Ok, so now we have a flow bench headed our way! Thanks Sparky! It's always great, and informative, to talk with you!

Here is the final list of changes and mods we are going to do before El Mirage in May.


Test, epoxy, and port block for maximum flow

whittle new chamber design on heads

design, fab, and install new coated and wrapped headers

design roller lifters and blocks, install roller cam

design and install one piece main girdle assembly

install water injection-dyno test for gains

new gears/tranny installed

dry sump tranny and rear differential

narrower front axle for comp coupe class

hidden door hinges

removable drip rails

hood scoop for comp coupe class

new, more aero friendly front body panels for comp coupe class

wind tunnel time to 'tweak' and test aero design

dyno time- 650 HP goal!


It's going to be a busy off season, to say the least!

We we're discussing the roller lifters, and trying to decide on a suitable solution to keep the lifters aligned. We were leaning toward double keyed lifters, but then Don came up with a brilliant idea- oval shaped lifters!

So, this engine will have custom made lifters and lifter blocks, with oval shaped lifters and block bores!

[RichFox]

Oval lifters? Isn't that going to be expensive?$$$  Whats wrong with the key and slot design that has worked for some time?

[38flattie]

Rich, we have to make new lifter bodies and blocks anyway. Don thinks with his CNC's, this will be a better, easier way.

Ironically, when I stopped and chatted with Kenny Kloth, he mentioned he had considered using square lifters, for ease of manufacture.

[SPARKY]

700 would be a nice round number 

Buddy and I need a LSR Drop House in Al-ba-QQ. NM,   in Dec.,   no, no, no-- not for a drug deal a parts deal!!

[Pete1]

Oval lifters? Isn't that going to be expensive?$$$  Whats wrong with the key and slot design that has worked for some time?

Right on Rich.
It has worked on many different engines over the years and is still one of the more popular designs not to mention
far cheaper to install.
The only problem is right now I am having a hard time finding someone with a wire EDM to do the slots for a reasonable cost. Including Don.
The pics show a radius lifter but rollers would be no big deal because the slots could be done on CNC before heat treating.

[RichFox]

There must be something i am not seeing here. Why do you need a wire EDM to machine slots? Couldn't you grind them? If the lifter is to hard to mill. Or use an ELG?

[38flattie]

Pete, when you first did those Caddy lifters in the pics, that was what we planned to do. I'm sure it would work fine for us, like it has on so many other engines.

Roller lifters cause more side load on the blocks than the radius lifters, so we wanted beefier blocks anyway, We decided rather that modifying a current lifter body, a new lifter body would be the way to go. Since we are making both, I really like the oval lifter idea! The CNC does the work, and every lifter and bore is exactly the same, unlike when drilling the blocks for the keys.

[Pete1]

Pete, when you first did those Caddy lifters in the pics, that was what we planned to do. I'm sure it would work fine for us, like it has on so many other engines.

Roller lifters cause more side load on the blocks than the radius lifters, so we wanted beefier blocks anyway, We decided rather that modifying a current lifter body, a new lifter body would be the way to go. Since we are making both, I really like the oval lifter idea! The CNC does the work, and every lifter and bore is exactly the same, unlike when drilling the blocks for the keys.

There must be something i am not seeing here. Why do you need a wire EDM to machine slots? Couldn't you grind them? If the lifter is to hard to mill. Or use an ELG?

On new ones there would be no problem as they would be slotted before heat treat.
If you are making radius lifters from stock lifters as I do on flathead Fords the lifters are Rockwell 55C to start with.


On the side loading, you are no where near anything critical either with radius or roller lifters.
However, while oval lifters will work physically, they are mechanically less efficient than slotted ones due to torsional friction.
One of the more efficient roller designs was used by Harmon & Collins on their old roller cams from the 50's. They were very easy to
manufacture and probably the lightest. As a side note, their cams had inverted flanks to get the rate of lift up. VERY essential to a good design.
Not many do that today.

[38flattie]

Pete,

Our lifters will be light, as we will go wiith a hollow body.

I'm not familier with the Harmon & Collins roller lifters. Do you have any pics of them you can post?