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Author Topic: Flywheel tech question  (Read 4908 times)

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Offline 38flattie

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Flywheel tech question
« on: July 11, 2010, 07:24:25 PM »
 
Is there any provision for me to run my stock flywheel, in the XXO/BGAlt class? The engine is a blown Cadillac Lasalle  Flathead, in a 38 Lasalle.  I can have a custom flywheel made, but will still have a problem.
 
On the flathead Cadillacs and Lasalles, the flywheel was of a special design, and also acts as the vibration dampner.Going to a billet flywheel is a pretty tough option. It would mean redesigning the front of the engine for a vibration dampner.
 
I want to run, and will do what I must. I'm just checking, so when I get the car ready, I won't get a surprise during tech.
 
Thank you in advance.
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Offline Glen

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Re: Flywheel tech question
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2010, 07:39:08 PM »
Contact Joe Panek at Rotofaze. He runs  a flat head caddy with a blower. He makes a lot of special parts.
310-325-8844
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Offline jdincau

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Re: Flywheel tech question
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2010, 07:51:26 PM »
page 33, section 3.O, "Flywheels" no castiron/cast aluminum flywheels shall be permitted"
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Offline 38flattie

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Re: Flywheel tech question
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2010, 08:12:13 PM »
Glen,

I'll call Joe- He runs that V-12, right?

Quote from: jdincau on July 11, 2010, 07:51:26 PM
page 33, section 3.O, "Flywheels" no castiron/cast aluminum flywheels shall be permitted"

I saw that, That's why I'm asking. With these vintage engines, nothing is 'off the shelf', and I was inquiring to see if I had missed something.

Here is the engine I'll be running.
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=430439
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With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. -- RFC 1925

You can't make a race horse out of a pig. But if you work hard enough at it you can make a mighty fast pig. - Bob Akin

http://www.flatcadracing.org/
http://youtu.be/89rVb497_4c

Offline John Burk

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Re: Flywheel tech question
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2010, 08:28:39 PM »
Many engines never had harmonic dampers and many race engines don't use them .

John
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Offline 38flattie

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Re: Flywheel tech question
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2010, 08:34:47 PM »
Quote from: John Burk on July 11, 2010, 08:28:39 PM
Many engines never had harmonic dampers and many race engines don't use them .

John

It appears that the billet flywheel will have to happen, so no damper is how I'll have to go.

Thanks
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With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. -- RFC 1925

You can't make a race horse out of a pig. But if you work hard enough at it you can make a mighty fast pig. - Bob Akin

http://www.flatcadracing.org/
http://youtu.be/89rVb497_4c

Offline RichFox

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Re: Flywheel tech question
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2010, 09:16:39 PM »
I know of people who say they are running a cast steel flywheel. And that since it is not cast iron it is legal. I am very much not to sure about that but don't really know. Is a cast steel flywheel legal? How would you know a cast steel from a cast iron flywheel?
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Offline 38flattie

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Re: Flywheel tech question
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2010, 09:20:53 PM »
Quote from: RichFox on July 11, 2010, 09:16:39 PM
I know of people who say they are running a cast steel flywheel. And that since it is not cast iron it is legal. I am very much not to sure about that but don't really know. Is a cast steel flywheel legal? How would you know a cast steel from a cast iron flywheel?

HaHa! Now that you mention it, Rich, I think mine is cast steel!

On a different note, if I have to have one made, the aluminum flywheels are for very light cars, correct? Pobably would not work well with my Lasalle?
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With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. -- RFC 1925

You can't make a race horse out of a pig. But if you work hard enough at it you can make a mighty fast pig. - Bob Akin

http://www.flatcadracing.org/
http://youtu.be/89rVb497_4c

Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Flywheel tech question
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2010, 10:27:08 PM »
Quote from: 38flattie on July 11, 2010, 09:20:53 PM
On a different note, if I have to have one made, the aluminum flywheels are for very light cars, correct? Probably would not work well with my Lasalle?

Not necessarily.  Road racing cars tend to use them because they're constantly accelerating and decelerating.  The big advantage with an aluminum flywheel is that the engine will rev a bit quicker due to less rotating mass.  You'll probably have to give it a bit more juice off of the line, but if this is going to be a purpose built LSR car, I'd think it hardly an issue.

A heavier flywheel will store power and smooth out your idle and low speed operation, but once you get that big mass of LaSalle crank a spinnin', a heavy flywheel becomes kind of redundant.

And if there's any harmonic ugliness going on with your assembly, the lighter flywheel will tend to move it up the RPM range.   

Given the amount of rotating mass your engine already has, the short distance and consistent rev's that a LSR car operates in, and that aluminum is easier to machine, I certainly wouldn't rule it out, although a machined steel flywheel would certainly be stronger.

Chris
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Offline doug odom

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Re: Flywheel tech question
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2010, 10:31:22 PM »
WILCAP ph. 805-481-7639 makes high performance flywheels for just about any of them old flathead motors.
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Offline 38flattie

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Re: Flywheel tech question
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2010, 11:26:42 PM »
Thanks guys! I just sent Wilcap an email.

A buddy of mine just offered me the use of his camero, that has the proper cage setup. If I put my engine in the car, will I still be XXO/BGAlt, or would the newer car change my classification?




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With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. -- RFC 1925

You can't make a race horse out of a pig. But if you work hard enough at it you can make a mighty fast pig. - Bob Akin

http://www.flatcadracing.org/
http://youtu.be/89rVb497_4c

Offline RichFox

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Re: Flywheel tech question
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2010, 11:53:22 PM »
I think with the cad you would have been in Vintage Alt. With a Camaro your in XXOB/GAlt
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Offline dw230

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Re: Flywheel tech question
« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2010, 12:06:16 PM »
Depends on the year of the Camero.

Flattie,

No need to answer my email from this morning.

DW
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Offline jimmy six

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Re: Flywheel tech question
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2010, 01:27:00 PM »
Might be pertainent or not but years ago the association outlawed cast steel bellhousings like the Wedge and Ansen. I cannot see cast steel flywheels ever being allowed.

There was a Wedge listed and E-Bay and used the SCTA as a reference. I emailed him on it being illegal for the SCTA and he didn't care.
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Offline RichFox

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Re: Flywheel tech question
« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2010, 01:47:40 PM »
Quote from: dw230 on July 12, 2010, 12:06:16 PM
Depends on the year of the Camero.
DW
Hows that? Can't be a pre '48 Camaro. And we don't have vintage engine classes in Classic catagory. So if it's in a Camaro I would conclude its XXO/BGC  or XXO/BGAlt
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