Does it matter to you...

[rosemeyer]

Sorry Larry (Larry Forstal) to disagree with you! I can't see how one can compare a two-run average speed over a mile with a speed measured over 132 feet.

Both performance are outstanding, but there is no way they are comparable. One is more an 'instant' speed, the other an 'average' speed.

The speed recorded at Maxton is maybe higher than John Noonan's FIM record at Bonneville, but that would be forgetting that John had to sustain his speed over a longer distance, and both ways! I don't know if his top speed has been measured at any point during the attempt, but it could have been higher (or it may have not) than the speed quoted for Maxton.

These are 2 different kinds of performance, both absolutely fantastic.

But then I would say that since I am bias toward sit-on, open, partially streamlined bikes!

[Larry Forstall]

Mr. Rosemeyer: In skating, gymnastics and other sports they award points based on the degree of difficulty. At Bonneville it is a matter of reaching a maximum speed in a given mile with three to choose from. The power to weight of a motorcycle allows it (with proper ballast) to reach that speed in the first timed mile. That is three miles total. Current technology makes turbocharged engines quite reliable so the average is always close to the peak speed. The Maxton mile is concrete but it was not paved yesterday so the surface is rough and bumpy. The acceleration needed to reach 260 MPH in just one mile is incredible to watch. The balance and throttle control are the finest of lines between wheel spin and wheel lofting. That doesn't even take into account the braking skill necessary to stop in the short distance available. I have only been 200 myself(At Bonneville) but my bikes have been 251 at Bonneville and 235 at Maxton. Believe me peak speed at Maxton is MUCH harder than Bonneville. This includes the riders skill, courage etc. in the degree of difficulty.     Larry

[rosemeyer]

Larry, I do appreciate that running at Maxton is difficult. I have never been there myself, but saw the layout of the track and as you said, the short distance to stop must be ever present to the mind of whoever commit himself to 'gun' his bike. Plus, like you also said, the track is less than ideal surface wise and that must be unnerving in itself.
My previous message was in no way to devalue speeds there (I am not qualified to do that), but to comment that in my opinion, the 2 performances are not comparable. I take your word that 260 at Maxton is more difficult/risky/skillful than same speed at Bonneville.
It maybe that there is more potential to go faster in future at Bonneville than at Maxton, for the reasons you gave.

[JackD]

Regardless of various legislation to protect the class-A bike the sit ups based on st ockers are the fastest. They go better because they are a better package with the rider to deliver the available HP in more conditions.
A proper built to the existing rules class-A bike can be faster , but the conditions are less available.
It is not only a factor of surface conditions, but the environment that can be encountered over the distance.
Riders want to do more with aero in the belief that it is the next big speed development. The safety record is there for a reason and limits are well established with a good record. It would be a disservice to allow a known package to crash and then learn again the lessons of the past.
Each location is going to have it's limits and you can depend on the bikers to find them. The Sanction has the job to keep it fair and as safe as is reasonable. It is the riders job to go the fastest with the bounds of safety, not change the rules.

[1212FBGS]

("The balance and throttle control are the finest of lines between wheel spin and wheel lofting.")

Larry what about the CONSTANT tire spinning at Bonneville??

Larry it is common knowledge that "I" as well as others don't give any credibility to ecta records. I don't put it past those guys to put the lights 1 step closer together and BOOM almost everyone gets records. like last month 39 records for 69 entries. Since you are talking about Yancy's bike lets take it for example, they have been running in the 240 range for years with occasional low 250 something passes. this year they didn't set a record in March or May, with records of 249 and 252 in Sept and a 255 record in April so it would be safe to say that this is a passable mid 250 bike. OK now the Oct meet, the last lsr meet for the year, on the 29th Lee Shierts ran a 245, a 252, a 116, and at 4pm ran a 256. the next day at 8:47 am BOOM he ran a 260!!!! then the next pass was a 365mph!!!! followed by a 211 by Pollack on the same bike. Actually if you look at the numbers only 14 records set on the 29th and 24 records set on the 30th!!!! I'm not saying there is someone on the grassy knoll, but Turk was pretty fast in posting the ecta has the fastest bike and bagged on Noonan. Most of you who know me, know that I don't just start crap I just come right out and say whatever I think. In my opinion I think they moved the lights closer together Saturday night and everyone gets records and the ecta can claim the fastest bike. Now my claim cant be verified but look at there run logs and results and come up with your own opinion but to me they aren't a credible organization and there records don't mean a thing to me.
Oh yeah while your at it look at that guy with the 125 he has been running a constant 100 to 104 mph records for a few years and then on the 30th he miraculously runs a 109? yeah right come on guys! tell us it was the wind or something.

[Seldom Seen Slim]

Well, Mark rode the 125 Mito bike to a 107.349 at Bonneville in August '05.  Add a little bit of lower altitude at Maxton and there's the 109.  Nancy rode that bike to a 107.6 at Maxton in October '04, and add a little tuning and development during the '05 season and again, there's the 109.

At Maxton you can see black marks from tire spin down the entire length of the concrete surface.  A new mark appears after many of Yancy's bike's runs.  Tire spin IS an issue at Maxton, just like it is at Bonneville.

I'll let Joe Timney discuss where he puts the lights.

Ooops, gotta go -- the Grand Imperial Potentate of Sierra Leone just sent an email asking if I'll help move $15,500,000 out of a dormant bank account somewhere in Africa.  Dang, this could be my ticket to fame and fortune!

[JackD]

The first time that anybody beat the Honda at 219 in the dirt, he had a 22 mph tail wind. Did he forget to tell you ?
Cheat doesn't happen as often as mistakes. That goes for setting up the lights, conditions, and just figuring out how to go faster.
Equipment standards change all the time and often you find you are not using the best.

OBTW: Slim, just send me the money, I will make you famous. Remember I have the pictures.

[KeithTurk]

I'm not afraid to post my opinions either....  Call me a liar or a cheater again and I'll see you... in person, we can both express our opinions and options... it will be my honor...   which by the way your questioning here... and honestly I'm not very fond of it....  But being a gentleman I'll give you the opportunity to apologize with NO qualifications.

Keith Turk
Race Director
Co-owner ECTA

[1212FBGS]

2530 fortune way
Vista, Ca. 92083

You can mapquest it if you wish

[joea]

alrighty then........

do to this years low ticket sales
at scta events.....a special year
end fundraiser has taken
shape nicely.........

payperview proceeds to landracing.com

double header.....

preliminary match.....Amo - Noonan ....3 periods.......

main event.......Turk - Riches.......

special guest J.D. Tone will be on hand selling
granola and signed copies of the best selling CD
"Marticissm new language of love" featuring the
holiday hit "Im not coming home for christmas"

"pot" luck to follow for SoCal folks, hosted by Jack D..........

Joe

[doug odom]

Why would an honest, intelligent, truthful  man accuse another person of dishonest behavior without any evidence? The answer of course is    he wouldn't.    Doug Odom

[JackD]

to write so even the "potted" people can understand it.

[hawkwind]

Riders want to do more with aero in the belief that it is the next big speed development. The safety record is there for a reason and limits are well established with a good record. It would be a disservice to allow a known package to crash and then learn again the lessons of the past.
quote]
Jack , somewere on this forum you stated that "some say why not ,you can also learn something from these as well"  well my friend watch and learn , there is an unplayed ace , I intend to play it and will achieve my goal , its something that allows one to play with lots of aero and laugh at sidewinds   now all I need is some of that easy money you and Mr seldom seen  have come into  
Gary

[JackD]

"It has been well established that over the speed that you might expect to achieve on a horse, you will find it imposable to breath."
My dad that joined the Navy in 1918 brought his dad aboard a ship in the Boston Navy Yard for a tour. When he thought no one was looking, his dad took out a pocket knife to take a chip out of the ship because he was convinced a steel ship could never float.
Like many things, motorcycles have not been perfected yet, and you are never going to stop that for sure.
I press certain things but understand that if I try to hold everybody's hand I would be gasping for breath on a horse and depending on a wood boat.
If nobody tried stuff, how else are they going to know ?
I expect to continue to watch and learn and I am anxious to watch your progress.

[ddahlgren]

Most of you who know me, know that I don't just start crap I just come right out and say whatever I think. In my opinion I think they moved the lights closer together Saturday night and everyone gets records and the ecta can claim the fastest bike. Now my claim cant be verified but look at there run logs and results and come up with your own opinion but to me they aren't a credible organization and there records don't mean a thing to me.

Opinions are like a$$holes everyone has one. Occasionally they act like their opinion as well. Been there done that and outgrew it about 20 years ago. Really think about what you said. You called at least 2 people dishonest with zero evidence at all. Have you ever been to a drag race? Have you ever seen some one pick up several miles an hour. Have you ever seen lane choice affect the performance and change the ET and MPH? Have you ever seen a high pressure front move in and everyone is a tenth quicker? A run log is not an industrial process that can be analyised statisically for peak and mean values in the short term. At Maxton it is a one mile drag race on a rough course, give it some real thought. If you have never been why not go there and see what is going on and see if it is believable before you openly state people are dishonest. Personally I have always found the loudest person is generally wrong. One could as easily ask how did a 250 mph bike go 259??? When Joe Amo ran a 244 on a one liter that was a ton over the record do you think they moved the lights? Maybe that is why return runs are tough in the morning because at night they screw with the lights to keep the number of records down...

Dave