Does it matter to you...

[Malcolm UK]

No one, not even DW, has answered the International problem that the SCTA/BNI bring to 'world records' - will they sanction any attempt, other than at Bonneville, run to the BNI rules?

[dwarner]

Personally, I don't see an "International" problem, run your deal the SCTA/BNI can run theirs. Depending under whose sanction/rules you race thats the record you have.

If you need to set a "Worlds" record then pick the the fastest, where is the challenge of running against a slower speed then claiming a record? I don't a bloody fig about FI...anything.

Hows that for a response?

DW

[JackD]

Every barn yard has it's own Rooster, each proclaiming their superiority as far as they can crow.
They are worthless until you can profit from them.
In the end, they all taste pretty much the same.

[Malcolm UK]

Dan - as I have been told the story the SCTA/BNI does want to place its International two way records alongside those of the FIA and perhaps even the FIM.  It is the reports and articles on the SCTA role as the World Authority that have driven the discussion.  

The desire of the SCTA to adjudicate on International records can only be valid if the operating methods are identical to those of the FIA or FIM and that the SCTA are prepared to sanction attempts anywhere in the US and then anywhere in the world.  If the SCTA only want to be the arbiter of mile and kilo records on Bonneville then we will never agree.  Inviting all nationalities into your 'playground' does not make the activity "International".  

And I do see that as a problem with the press/media/writers and between land speed record breakers and the confusion does not enhance the sport.  

Perhaps we can agree that there have to be some rules in place!

[JackD]

Confusion is a major part of the problems with tire companies.
Tires are the limiting factor for many classes.

[1212FBGS]

Malcolm
I don?t know what your problem is and why you keep baggin on the scta-bni for claiming ?world record status? for our records. The facts are??. We have the fastest shit in the world! And if you want to drag your junk to Russia and pay some guy?s expenses to verify your record (that?s if you actually get a record) you can call it whatever you want. We don?t need some uppity guy comin? over here to tell us we have the fastest shit in the world ?Hell we know it!? And until someone can break it elsewhere ?WE ARE THE HOME OF WORLD RECORDS? We offer a WORLD FINALS that has been open to anyone in the world, bring something over here and play in our playground so we can shut your whinny ass up.
Yours in sport
Kent Riches

[dwarner]

"as I have been told the story the SCTA/BNI..."

Malcom,

The key word here is "...story...".

As I have stated before I am not a board member. I have been in that spot and do not feel the need to do it again, I defer to persons smarter than I. Any conversation about record validty, methods of measurement, etc. do not concern me in any manner what so ever.

I'm out of this deal...

DW

[rosemeyer]

Malcolm.
With the last interventions from Dan Warner and Ken Riches, you should get the message by now.
For a long time you have been arguing about SCTA/BNI's decision to run their show at Bonneville, and "why they do this", "why they do that", and defending FIA like if you had shares.
These guys don't want to know about your 'expertise' in record breaking and your so-called experience in "organising attempts anywhere in the world (Bonneville?, Tunisia, UK and Nevada)". If you like to pay money to the FIA to get the right to play, that's your problem. If you choose silly places to run because 'it isn't Bonnie' OK. How many records did you get? Was it money well spent?

There may be only one Gospel, but many churches where to pray.
Bonneville, the SCTA/BNI, USFRA and a whole bunch of guys over there know more about records than you ever will: they break them while you still argue about your interpretation of the rules!
They put up a magnificent show several times a year, get some serious speed and break records. That's good enough for me. The last thing they want is for some jackass from England to tell them how to organise things!

Regarding e=motion, there is no use nit-picking if the Bullet has been pushed, or not been pushed. If e=motion wants to make a point, why no try to beat their speed; then we will talk about it. Instead, it's the big sulk!
Also, why targetting the lowest speed. If you want to climb the highest mountain, you don't choose Kilimanjaro, you tackle the Everest.

Like Ken Riches said: just turn up there and show what you can do.
In other words, PUT UP OR SHUT UP!

[1212FBGS]

Yeh what he said! er.... I mean what WE said!

[Malcolm UK]

The 'winner' in an debate is not the one who SHOUTS his points of view the loudest or tells the person with a differing view to SHUT UP.  And name calling does not make any difference to a viewpoint either.

If you don't want to read a point of view from me then hit delete .....

Now that many are gone ........... I will let you know that I have no worries about the USA racing association claiming records as 'World' status as they have done for years.  I have never expressed a view on how Bonneville events are run, except in the case of the so called 'International records' that are meant to be the BNI equivalent of the FIA methods.  I have expected 94 years of two-way runs over the mile and kilo to be adhered to when looking at the Worlds fastest speeds with one hour turnaround for cars and 2 for bikes and unaided starts.

The story about the SCTA 'taking over' the International records has been in articles printed worldwide on behalf of an award winning American author.  If the content is 'stories' to US racers then perhaps I should have no concerns.  My European clients will do their thing and the Bonneville racers will do theirs.  None of my clients have ever targetted the 'lower speed', most have been pushing to be the outright fastest.

What does matter is that FIA records are set unaided - the technology in an electric vehicle makes a push start very advantageous to its ultimate speed.  The two-way runs limits the acceleration distance for all racers if there is a space 'problem' and thus cuts top speed too.

Apart from holding a licence with the FIA symbol on it I do not have shares in that organisation.

I have enjoyed Bonneville events and Maxton events as a spectator and meeting and talking with the racers.  I have learnt a great deal but at times we do not agree.  American racers have visited with me in England too!  So I need no cheap put down remarks about me and my understanding of what happens on the salt or concrete, I appreciate what everyone does, why they do it and the risks involved.

And I didn't open the debate this time either ..... but I am sure Kent and Rosemeyer will now shut it.

[ddahlgren]

Being the occasional insomniac that i am, well maybe small business syndrome is closer, every day you wake up and figure out what you are going to kill and eat so you don't starve, LOL.. Anyway there is an interesting point that has been made by accident I suspect. The venue brings it's own challenges to any record set. Every one that climbed Everest climbed the same mountain. Hitting the most home runs in one ball park is not the same as another if the ball parks are different as well. Why does this not work in LSR. If I set fast time at Daytona what does this have to do with Sebring? When you change the venue you change the challenges. if you are going for the ultimate speed then why not a 20 mile concrete runway in thin air? The turbos will bring their own atmosphere and the thin air ought to cut down on the aero drag. This all may be true or not but the point is the challenge at one place is traction and another might be air density or stopping distance. It really does not matter. If you are going to conduct any scientific test the first thing you do is eliminate any variables hat might affect the results. If i have a car and run it at 2 different places then I would expect 2 different speeds unless the places were identical in all respects. In essence all performances are localized. Fastest at El Mirage is not the same as Muroc or Maxton or Tunesia or Ormond beach or Daytona or Australia...
I personally trust any reputable sanctionng body to survey the track and measure the times correctly. You can't really argue stopping distances and anything else to do with track length when the length is not defined only the measured portion. That leaves basically the rules concerning turn around times and vehicle specifics. From a cursory look at the FIA regs it seems that they are a subset of the SCTA classes in that the FIA cars can fit pretty closely into a SCTA class but the ere are classes of SCTA vehicles that don't fit into an FIA class and make any sense. To me that makes the FIA a subset of the SCTA classes. The only major differences is the allowance of technology by FIA that is not cuuently allowed by SCTA/BNI. I say currently only because technology always creeps in no matter how much resistance is put up so eventually they will be the same. personally the only classes of vehicles that really interest me are the ones that have the fewest restrictions mostly special contruction, though i have a soft spot for those 'sportsliners' er i mean modifed sports and a lot of the bike classes as well.
Basically what i am trying to get across is this. I trust the surveryors and timers at any major venue. No two venues are the same ever. Even the same place is different at different times of the year. So all performance is localized. There are many measures of performance. One way two way 12 hr 24 hr they are all vaild and all have merit in their own way. All that leaves is officiating and record keeping. Every country has more officials and politicians than they need and all are of similar ilk in my mind. Sorry if that offends but just a personal point of view. Most are pretty much interchangable from my seat, all different yet all the same at the end of the day.
So at the end of the day what you really have is this.
The fastest speed of X type vehicle set at this particular venue under these atmospheric condtions as interpreted by this official/group to be legally fitting the current rules on this day. All else is subject to change and certainly will.  At the end of the day if the fastest horse happens to be in your barn it is still the fastest horse at least for that day..
Dave

[JackD]

That is what I said "RO0STERING".

[ddahlgren]

yeah i know that but offered the long version for those that don't want to or can't read in between the lines..LOL
Dave

[Sumner]

Basically what i am trying to get across is this. I trust the surveyors and timers at any major venue. No two venues are the same ever. Even the same place is different at different times of the year. So all performance is localized. There are many measures of performance. One way two way 12 hr 24 hr they are all valid and all have merit in their own way. All that leaves is officiating and record keeping. Every country has more officials and politicians than they need and all are of similar ilk in my mind. Sorry if that offends but just a personal point of view. Most are pretty much interchangeable from my seat, all different yet all the same at the end of the day.
So at the end of the day what you really have is this.
The fastest speed of X type vehicle set at this particular venue under these atmospheric conditions as interpreted by this official/group to be legally fitting the current rules on this day. All else is subject to change and certainly will.  At the end of the day if the fastest horse happens to be in your barn it is still the fastest horse at least for that day..
Dave

I agree totally with what you are saying as this was the point I was trying to make with my post that posed the "poll question".  Once you are given a speed that a racer turned only you can decide the value of that speed and be impressed or not.

I'm wondering if it matters to you who certifies a speed? Say BNI, SCTA, FIM, ECTA, etc..

The above quote was the question, not which organization someone likes or dislikes the most.  I guess maybe I didn't do a very good job of wording the question and the poll options .

I have enjoyed all the comments though and I'm sure even though some voices were raised we are all on the same team, maybe just have some different perspectives .

c ya, Sum

[Ro Yale]

This is some funny shit!! I was bored so I read some . Some people just like to argue. WHAT EVER!!!!!
Later, Ro