Author Topic: Motorcycle tire rule change  (Read 142285 times)

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Offline VeeTwin

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Re: Motorcycle tire rule change
« Reply #285 on: May 31, 2010, 09:31:46 AM »
Does anybody actually have an argument against having a comment period for rule changes? I keep waiting for a post with an actual argument in it to respond to but nobody seems to be able to come up with one. Tell me why a heads-up to the  racers and a comment period would be a bad thing. Anyone?

Landracing I don't have anything that runs anywhere near 200 so I don't know who the hades you're thinking of. I really don't give a hoot about the tire issue itself. All I'm saying is that history keeps repeating itself. They keep right on dropping new rule changes in with no heads-up, no chance to comment, nothing. Just like they did with the leathers rules and other things too. The message they're sending is that they're too arrogant to consider what the racers have to say. I hate to paint with a broad brush like that because I don't know everyone who's doing this but reading the above sure seems to confirm it. Can't you see how it would appear that way to someone who gets blindsided by a rule change?

Offline mkilger

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Re: Motorcycle tire rule change
« Reply #286 on: May 31, 2010, 11:08:00 AM »
veetwin if you dont like the rules dont run your bike at SCTA 'sBonneville Speedweek its about being safe, you can run your bike at BUB, less people shorter lines
« Last Edit: May 31, 2010, 11:22:04 AM by mkilger »

Offline 46champ

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Re: Motorcycle tire rule change
« Reply #287 on: May 31, 2010, 12:10:36 PM »
VeeTwin give it up they don't want to hear.  This is dispite the fact that even the  FAA has a comment period on a lot of their AD's.  Thou they don't like getting them.  Ah maybe that's the reason.

Offline donpearsall

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Re: Motorcycle tire rule change
« Reply #288 on: May 31, 2010, 12:58:42 PM »
I keep hearing comments about the new rule "it's about being safe..". But where is the data that tells you that is so? So far in all of this thread, NO ONE has offered any LSR testing data that proves tires with "race" in their name will be safer than the tires that have already proven safe. Before you jump on me for questioning this, I have already started purchasing legal "race" tires and will use them. BUT there has been a complete vacuum of information for us to make our own decisions on which race tires can handle the extended high loads, high heat, and speeds that our bikes have been going. Superbike and GPMoto tires offered by manufacturers are not held to standards and independent testing like DOT tires are. I just am unclear if these tires have been designed and tested for LSR competition. There is just a big question mark about what these tires can take.

Can anybody point me to a link or offer their own data about the capability of these tires to perform at LSR events? In all of this 18 page thread, no one has offered that proof.
Thanks
Don
550 hp 2003 Suzuki Hayabusa Land Speed Racer

Offline mkilger

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Re: Motorcycle tire rule change
« Reply #289 on: May 31, 2010, 01:11:55 PM »
SCTA has been all about "safety" since 1949 before they had bikes running at bonneville

Offline joea

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Re: Motorcycle tire rule change
« Reply #290 on: May 31, 2010, 01:34:34 PM »
don........when the manufacturers who make the tires are telling
you not to continue using their tires in a certain manner, and these
same manufacturers make other available tires and recommend them over
these....then...?.....has anyone who would like more info or has questions
talked to Van or Tom E.....?....

there was NO lsr testing on the zr radials either before we ran them....

so many are saying go to bub.......remember ive been waiting over 3 months
for AMA/and FIM to say what is for sure going to be a legal tire......likely they
will allow zr to a certain speed...but im wanting to know to make appropriate plans.....

scta is getting bashed for the timeliness of decision, heck at least i know what their
standard is, its NOT been established yet for bub.......im sure they are doing the best they
can, and i DONT fault them at all for not being comfortable yet making a clarification......

see i want all sanctioning bodies to flourish......

why should the burden of proof about what you want to utilize on your
machine, being appropriate for the speeds you want to run, be on the
sanctioning body...?.....


were damn lucky scta has allowed us to use non lsr spec tires
as we have for so long.....

they could just as easily say get lsr spec tires, as the car folks
have had to do for decades.........

Offline k.h.

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Re: Motorcycle tire rule change
« Reply #291 on: May 31, 2010, 01:47:20 PM »
http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,396.0.html

6 years and the issue is finally pushed to the forefront. 

Anyone know what size Denis Manning's liner tires are and if they will be available whether or not he sells the BUB liner?

Sure, I have a dog in this fight.  I've been a fan of LSR since a wee lad, and finding solutions is my business.  The possible source for LSR bike tires in 2004 saw no ROI for the substantial investment required to make molds, though he did buy a surplus tire building machine to keep it from being sent to China. 
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.  But in practice, there is.--Jan L. A. Van de Snepscheut

Offline bak189

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Re: Motorcycle tire rule change
« Reply #292 on: May 31, 2010, 05:04:39 PM »
First of all, thank you Kent for your post....It appear that for the 2 time in my life (73 years old) I made a mistake.... thinking this whole tire thing was insurance motivated. Also sorry, I did not respond earlier, but this morning I had the pleasure of being involved in a ceremony here in Wrightwood honoring the men and women who liberated me from 5 years of Nazi occupation during the World War II.
Just another thought regarding the now required "race" tires......I would think the roadrace ones might well hold up on the short pavement LSR events (ECTA, Texas, Mojave enc.) but the long course on the salt might be a problem due to traction and the resulting heat build up.  I am only familiar with all out roadrace tires..........and know very little about the DOT spec. race tires.......I think we will all know by the end of August if this was a good rule change.  I certainly makes sense to go "racing" using "race" tires
but we all know that LSR is like no other type of racing.....Peace....
Question authority.....always

Offline 2fast4u2c

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Re: Motorcycle tire rule change
« Reply #293 on: May 31, 2010, 05:50:35 PM »
Kent,

You got my support fully.  I'm not a tire guru, or a rules maker, or anyone else of importance.  I don't race at those terrific speeds, but 228 (which is my fastest) is still very fast for me or anyone else for that matter.  If you guys say I must run a certain tire, then I run it.  I want to race and be able to race anywhere I am licensed or certified to race at of my choosing.  Following the sport and track rules are mandatory if I want to race at that event.  If I have to run gum rubber tires, thats what I'm running.  If I have to run race tires, I will run them.  I don't want to be told I can't race because I think I know better than the folks who make the rules, I don't.  I love racing and a pair of proper tires are what I'm buying and running.  Safety means everything to me.  If a rule MIGHT help save my life, I'm doing it.  My life, bike, family and the love of my sport means more to me than an argument over a pair of tires.  This thread is so over done, it needs to be locked by admin.  The rants have been heard, the pro's and con's have been said and re-said.
The rules are the rules, get over it people.  You can bitch all day long, but if you can't follow the rules (no matter how you think of them),you can't race.  If someone here is so poor that they can afford the bike, but not a pair of tires, then hang it up.  If you can afford a bike that the rules apply to, then you can buy some new treads.

OK, I'm done.  whew, I feel better.   :cheers:

Guy
300mph or Bust in 1 mile!!!
 
 Tiger Racing

Offline joea

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Re: Motorcycle tire rule change
« Reply #294 on: May 31, 2010, 07:46:05 PM »
Bak....were you glad to be liberated by someone concerned for your safety.....:)

Offline bak189

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Re: Motorcycle tire rule change
« Reply #295 on: May 31, 2010, 08:16:33 PM »
Hey, Joea,  You mean to say that it was the SCTA/BNI that librated me in 1945????? I must have missed seeing Glen and Elmo there..........



PS.   Hey Joea, Elmo was before your time.......right Jack D.


Question authority.....always

Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Motorcycle tire rule change
« Reply #296 on: May 31, 2010, 08:51:24 PM »
All I'm saying is that history keeps repeating itself.

History's not the only thing, pal.

Having been involved on a board of directors for a volunteer organization, and I need to stress this, a volunteer organization, I can say this much.  Many times, decisions are made with the full knowledge that the implications will cause an uproar, that accusations will fly, that favoritism will be alledged, and that board members are trying to game the system.  It is my experience, having served on such a board, that the membership's interests are usually being served to the best ability of the board members.  And success is not guaranteed.

As to the masked man's question,
Does anybody actually have an argument against having a comment period for rule changes? I keep waiting for a post with an actual argument in it to respond to but nobody seems to be able to come up with one. Tell me why a heads-up to the  racers and a comment period would be a bad thing. Anyone?

I think it’s a good idea.  But is it practical, or possible, when the parties involved are volunteering their time?  This sounds like a task that was delegated to some experts – probably the smartest thing that could have been done, at least from the point of view of a volunteer organization, and especially considering the fact that safety is the main issue.  That's not a cop-out, that's an observation.  

As to the timing of the news, think this one through - These committee members are also racers, and they’re bombarded with questions, day in, and day out.  How often do they get a chance to talk to each other face-to-face regarding issues as important as this one?  

The first meet of the year is a 2-day event, usually with a huge turnout.  Would you, as a committee member, want to be holding court with every bike racer with a 200 mph target, talk tires for 2 days straight, and then try to concentrate on racing?  How long would inspection take if every bike rider with the potential to go 200+ wound up pumping the inspectors for tire info?  The bike side of the event would have turned into a nightmare for everybody, and the event would have suffered.  Instead, this year, better than 150 entrants had the opportunity at three passes.  Everybody got their attempts.  And they all have about a month to make changes – including those on the committees.

Are my thoughts on this out of line?  Idyllically, there would be a complete vetting of rule proposals openly, involving as many people as possible.  Pragmatically, I can’t see how, with the disparate schedules we all lead, that it could be done on a timely basis.

Does this mean I’m an arrogant elitists who turns a deaf ear to the proletariat?  It occurs to me that this rule change is going to have the same effect on everybody, including those who made it.

Standing down.

Chris

PS -
I've been corrected - they have until August to make changes. 
« Last Edit: June 01, 2010, 12:13:11 AM by Milwaukee Midget »
"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

Offline Nortonist 592

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Re: Motorcycle tire rule change
« Reply #297 on: June 01, 2010, 01:00:50 AM »
Dang!  What a change!  Anybody for a couple of choruses of Kumbaya?
Get off the stove Grandad.  You're too old to be riding the range.

Offline Randall Parker

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Re: Motorcycle tire rule change
« Reply #298 on: June 01, 2010, 03:02:24 PM »
I just got back from the World Super Bike race at Miller Motorsport Park MMP.  I know a vender located there. It is 60 miles east of Wendover.  Traction Zone 2901 N. Sheep Lane, Shop #101, Tooele, UT 84074.  801-244-2149  Aaron Lanningham former M/C Bonneville racer in the early 90's, currently he races a GSXR 1000 at MMP.  Very smart on M/C racing tires.  He has racing Dunlops on the shelf now as well as several other tire manufacturers, Bridgestone, Pirrelli.

I also have currently 5 sets of Pirrelli racing tires that have seen at least two sessions that I can bring to Bonneville.  4 sets of Bridgestone with 4 sessions.  Two sets of Dunlops with 4 sessions.  If there is enough interest in used racing tires with no visible defects I can bring a tire machine and balancer and we can do it right next to impound.  $100 a set mounted and balanced.  I can get more. Randall Parker

New tires can come from Aaron Lanningham.   WWW.Tractionzone.com  801-244-2149
The Faster you go the longer you live...it's just physics.

Offline Randall Parker

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Re: Motorcycle tire rule change
« Reply #299 on: June 01, 2010, 03:07:26 PM »
All M/C racers using used tires purchased from American Injured Riders Group (AIRG) will need to sign a waiver stating AIRG is not liable for catastrophic failures.  AIRG is a non-profit organization incorporated in Utah.  I can provide used race M/C tires through this group.  Thanks  Randall Parker
The Faster you go the longer you live...it's just physics.